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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Give me a break...
      #66197 - 02/12/06 12:50 PM

$46525

http://www.hollandandholland.com/~newyork/newguns/982424245016.htm

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66202 - 02/12/06 01:16 PM

Ambitiously priced indeed!

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66234 - 03/12/06 02:04 AM

That price is completely outrageous.

I've handled quite a lot of H&H's bolt rifles while in London on a few occations, and have to admit that I have not been especially impressed with them. At least when considering their prices.

Perhaps they have begun to rely too much on their brand name, instead of quality?

Erik

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nopride2
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66244 - 03/12/06 04:24 AM

It does have some snob appeal.

Dave

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Give me a break... [Re: nopride2]
      #66263 - 03/12/06 09:52 AM

A nice looking gun, but WAY TOO MUCH for what you get.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bigdog]
      #66319 - 04/12/06 07:08 AM

Ok, honestly, scratch off every "H&H" or "Holland and Holland" engraved on the rifle, and what would the gun be worth?

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Give me a break... [Re: clark7781]
      #66321 - 04/12/06 08:03 AM

Clark, probably $5K.

This is the golden age of American custom gunmaking. Budget $10K, hire one of the members of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild and own one of the best bolt gun ever built in human history.

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66351 - 05/12/06 01:59 AM

For that price, you could order one a classic-grade rifle from the David Miller Company or two classic-grade rifles from D'Arcy Echols & Company and own far, far better rifles than this H&H offering.

When it comes to fine custom bolt-guns, the top American makers rule the roost.........

AD

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 500grains]
      #66391 - 05/12/06 11:54 PM

500 Grains:
from what I have seen at the American Custom Guild Makers shows in the past few years... you are 100% correct.
there are some serious makers in that group that dont get near the credit that they deserve and they aren't out to rape you on price.... you get everything you pay for and then some!

the anual rifle that they raffle is always a thing to behold: Functional,Beautifully engraved,Handsomely cased,,,, I keep buying tickets but no luck thus far....maybe one day though

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #66393 - 06/12/06 12:33 AM

I need some claification. Are these men you talk about gunmakers or gun assemblers?

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66398 - 06/12/06 01:28 AM

That's a good question. I think that most of them are gunmakers, rather than gun assemblers -- however, not all of them are building the same sort of product, and not all of these gunmakers are equal in terms of skill and vision.

Some are much more interested in cosmetics, rather than performance, and are primarily building "art rifles", while some are clearly building true hunting rifles that'll actually be used in the field. Fundamentally, I will NOT do business with any custom riflemaker who does not thoroughly test EVERY rifle he builds for feeding, function, and accuracy before he sends it out.

Quite honestly, my favorite custom riflemakers display their wares at SCI, and all of them send out prove rifles that are built, by intent, for serious use in the field. What they build can be very, very pretty, but they're neither "safe-queens" nor "art rifles"............

AD

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Give me a break... [Re: bonanza]
      #66401 - 06/12/06 02:58 AM

Quote:

I need some claification. Are these men you talk about gunmakers or gun assemblers?



They are gunmakers, but with one caveat. If you classify a gunmaker as only those who make their own actions from scratch, then they are not gunmakers, but in that case H&H is not a gunmaker either because they do not make their own Mauser actions.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 500grains]
      #66405 - 06/12/06 03:44 AM

Hey even at that price (or similar) I bet you it eventually sells.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 500grains]
      #66407 - 06/12/06 03:59 AM

Bonanza:
the bulk of these "artisans" are fully capable of making their own actions but chose not to as the actions they use are readily available and are implimented in the construction of their guns.

i have spoken to several of these makers and i have not run across one of them that cares anyless about accuarcy than the asthetics of their rifles.

i do, however, agree that they can get a little carried away with "dressing the rifle up" to the point that you may not want to be knocking it about in the field but their anual show is where they bring their best work, this is not to say that these makers wont make you a field grade rifle of excellent quality if thats what you order.

there are some excellent independant makers at SCI as well, but the cost of showing at SCI is so outrageously high that the small makers are shut out of that market and occaisionally you will see two or more of them sharing a booth at SCI. the other reason that you dont see a lot of them at SCI is that there is often a conflict of schedules with their show and SCI.

as a whole, this is a fine bunch of people who check their pretenses at the door and are always up for discussion of their work and their fellow guild members work.

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #66424 - 06/12/06 07:19 AM

Some guy with too much money and too little knowledge will buy it.

Not a bad looking rifle, but the price turned Snow White in a witch

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Give me a break... [Re: allenday]
      #66432 - 06/12/06 10:00 AM

Quote:

When it comes to fine custom bolt-guns, the top American makers rule the roost.........



In their wettest dreams.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66486 - 07/12/06 03:22 AM

That's not even a good joke.

I've look over a great many Britsh magazine rifles of all makes (and from all eras) in person, and in almost every case the workmanship, design, and quality wouldn't take third prize in a two-entry contest compared to the work of the top American makers, and in terms of truly understanding and applying the technology of accuracy, our smiths will especially hammer 'em into the ground.

A few of the continental makers, however, such Hartmann & Weiss, turn out some impeccable rifles that are superb.......

AD

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Give me a break... [Re: allenday]
      #66493 - 07/12/06 06:05 AM

That's because you're a shill, Allen. A few of the American makers have some talent, but they don't have the formal training the British and European makers have. For the most part, the "top" American makers are parts changers and polishers, and most not very good ones at that.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66499 - 07/12/06 07:39 AM

Have you blokes checked the cost of the H&H detachable mounts which would need to be added to that rifle.

Mike

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #66500 - 07/12/06 07:43 AM

Check this bolt actio a the tp of the page.

http://www.purdey.com/boltaction.php

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Tightloop
.275 member


Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Give me a break... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #66564 - 08/12/06 08:48 AM

man, I am ashamed to see you are from Texas....the US smiths are the equal or not the better of most continental gun makers and there is not a rifle made by Purdey or H&H worth 20 K.....Lots of US smiths besides Echols or David Miller make a great rifle...the late Frank Wells made some beautiful guns, Ed Shilen makes some great ones, just like David Butterworth at Hill Country Rifles...I could go on, but you obviously are prejudiced...

Just because the old school apprentice system in Europe trains smiths for 10+ years doesn't mean they are better...and believe it or not, hand work is not always better than great machine work..no matter who does it..
The reason most of the smiths at the big name houses and the houses themselves are going out of business is the fact that the shop ran at the speed of the SLOWEST worker....not very smart no matter how great it is...LOL

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Tightloop]
      #66566 - 08/12/06 09:07 AM

Tightloop:
I recognize some of the names you site and you are right, these makers know what they are doing.
and it isnt Frank Wells its Fred Wells (rest his soul) he had some novel ideas and saw many of them through.... he is sorrily missed by his peers and most that knew him. He was a prince of a man. Hopefully his wife Rachel will be at the Guild show this year, I fully expected to see both of them at the SCI and Guild show last year and was shocked to learn that Fred had passed on.
anyway,,,,, just thought I would clear that up

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #66569 - 08/12/06 09:35 AM

Double trouble,
Actually, there is a Frank Wells that makes wonderful custom bolt rifles. One of my best guns is a 585 wells magnum made by Frank Wells. He is not related to Fred Wells to my knowledge, but he is one hell of a custom gunmaker. So was Fred Wells

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Tightloop]
      #66578 - 08/12/06 11:56 AM

Wait a second. I Whinchester made the action and pac-nar made the barrel and NEGC made the sights, what did the gun maker actually make?

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Tightloop
.275 member


Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Give me a break... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #66580 - 08/12/06 12:12 PM

Thanks for clearing that up...it did not look quite right when I typed it..sorry...

Shot a 510 Wells once, and only once...what a brute...

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