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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Loc: Southeastern USA

Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet??
#63671 - 07/10/06 12:06 AM

What is this forum's preference and results with softnose/expanding bullets shooting out to 300-400 yds.

I have used the Scirocco on elk with fair results out at 300yds. The X bullets work well too if they are accurate in your rifle.Failsafes seem similar. I have the most experience with Nosler partitions but their accuracy falls off past 300 yds.

Has anyone used the NorthFork softs at these distances? I know they require alot of velocity but if MOA accurate from a 300 ultramag at 3200 fps they seem to have potential.

What's your favorite reach out and touch 'em bullet for non dangerous Big Game?

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63678 - 07/10/06 05:44 AM

Further review of the North Fork bullet suggests a BC (ballistic coefficient)around .370.

This would make it a good 300 yarder but less so for extended ranges.

Hmmm, makes me think about the new Barnes MRX bullets/Winchester XP3 rounds.Should be good way out yonder with its great BC.

Any opinions?? Am I way off base?

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (07/10/06 05:48 AM)

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63703 - 07/10/06 07:48 PM

Upon reflaction we can almost make this load/caliber specific-- if I am only shooting out to 300 yds the North Fork bullets are just DANDY,signifiganly past that I may want something else.

Personally,I would consider distances out to 300 yds medium range and past 300 long range.

Why? Some caliber loads are practical out to 300 yds, and some further. The 338 WM for example.I consider it a natural 300 yard rifle and a perfect match for a NF bullet. A real hammer.If I go up in velocity/distance potential to a 338-378 WBY round at 3200 fps with a 225 gr load I am reaching past 300 yds and would need to consider an alternate bullet with a higher BC to conserve energy/trajectory over distance.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (07/10/06 07:54 PM)

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska

Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63705 - 07/10/06 08:07 PM

Right now, I've been using 180 grain Nosler Partitions and 200 grain North Forks. Those North Forks just shoot so good out my M70 and the terminal performance has been outstanding that it is hard to use something else. However, if you are looking for a hunting bullet for shots well past 300 yards, AND for use on large plainsgame/elk sized critters, I'd go with the Barnes TSX. Honestly, if you run trajectory charts and have a 200 or 250 yard zero, you won't notice a tremendous amount of difference between the North Fork and a more aerodynamic bullet. But, shooting that far out one needs to stack the odds in your favor. I'd go with TSX because of its integrity and performance as a hunting bullet and its shape to slip the wind.

I'm sure the GS Custom bullets would be an ideal candidate too. Does anyone know if Gina or Gerard or whomever it was, has got their shipping issues cleared up? They would probably be a great choice if you can actually get them in your hands to load. GS is a small South African company.

I just can't trust the Accubonds until all the complaints are sorted out. The MRX might be a good one, but I think Barnes has just released some in .308" in the past few weeks. Too early for me to try out on any game animals, I don't want to be the person to field test the bullets if the hunting is on my coin.

I've heard a lot of good reports from guys shooting the LRB J36 bullet, but they are expensive.

To put my money where my mouth is, after I get back into the game after surgery, I'm going to be working up some TSX loads for my 300 H&H for sheep hunting, maybe to carry to the Pamirs.

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Fergus_Bailey
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: DPhillips]
#63735 - 08/10/06 03:59 PM

The only shots on big game I have taken beyond 300 yards have been with Barnes X and Accubond bullets. I have been very pleased with the performance of both bullets and would use either again.

Unless you are going to be shooting at distances well in excess of 300 yards, I would simply load up some of your preferred bullets and try them on paper at different distances. That approach is far more reliable for determining real-world performance of the bullet than any other theory or speculation.

At any shot on game past 200-300 yards, the ability of the individual shooter will impact a lot more on the outcome than most bullet designs.

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www.accuracyrifle.com

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: Fergus_Bailey]
#63745 - 08/10/06 11:01 PM

Any decent rifle with a quality barrel and adequate caliber should be adequate to 300 yds. Past that distance shooting gets to be somewhat of an artform and sensitive of technique, etc..Past that we must worry about trajectory, wind, placement, and bullet energy, to make a clean kill.

I have a $600 308 Savage that is positively deadly out to 400yds.It all depends on how the barrel and bullet work to gether.I prefer a combination of relatively no wind, a laser range rinder and a Swarorski TDS scope for the long stuff.Works for me!

I think the Barnes MRX bullet is going to be a great long range bullet with the lead in the tail for stability and the X bullet front. Time will tell!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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DarylS
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63749 - 09/10/06 03:06 AM

I- for one, do not believe in shooting at our big game in excess of 200 to 250 yards. It is simple in this local, to get within 100 yards of 95% of the big game. Thus, it is easy to pass up on those you can't get within range of.
; For this reason, I see no reason for the Ultra Mags and other super magnum rifles. Companies desiring to fatten their pocket books bring all these huge ctgs. out an merely promote 'sky shots' as Ackley or Keith used to call them. It is one thing to have the ability to shoot long range on big game, and an entirely different matter to go out to buy one of the new large cased rifles because it promises to have the power to kill at long range.
: Fully 90.5% of those who buy those rifles have no worthwhile experience shooting, don't practise due to the cost of the ammo and the recoil, and don't even know that bore sighting didn't sight the rifle in for them.
: I see it every time I go to the range to practise or test ammo myself. Someone arrives with his 'new' cannon, complains the range is only 200 meters, because his 'new' rifle shoots moose at 500 meters". He sets up a target at 200meters and wonders why he can't hit it off the bench, afterall, the guy in the gun shop "set it up 2" high at 100" so it will be on at 200". Makes me sick.
: I've never had to shoot at a deer, moose, bear or elk beyond 100 yards. I believe a hunter never has to. One should do his hunting before pulling the trigger, not guessing whether or not he even hit the animal, after shooting.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: DarylS]
#63752 - 09/10/06 04:29 AM

I beg to disagree Daryl_S--

You are correct in that most hunters are poor shots past 200 yds but there are exceptions. I have friends, ex military people out there who would scare me to death shooting on a bet at 600 yds with a 308!! Yes, they are that good and yes they have taken my money!

Most of my best animals have been at 250 yds++. I consider a shot at 250 to be capable by most any rifleman with practice.

I have killed a deer from a shooting house at a measured 456 yds, with a 7 mag Sendero.I ahve killed an elk across a 350 yd valley with no other means to get at him.Would I do it again under the same conditions?? Absolutely.

Not a good long range shot??

Go out with you buds and bet $$ on hitting targets at 300,350, 400, and 450 yds.Use the same rifle if you wish.How far is far? When you can't keep your bullets inside an 8" pieplate for elk size animals, then that is too far. I use a 5 inch diameter for deer size animals which places your shooting limit closer depending on the MOA accuracy of your rifle.

With todays technology shooting out to 300yds the real limit is the shooter with decent shooting conditions,etc,etc.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (09/10/06 04:32 AM)

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63755 - 09/10/06 06:04 AM

I do have a beef with some Magnum rifle purchasers/shooters.

They go out and buy a rifle with 400+ yd potential and then buy light bullet weights(higher velocities) with lower BC's trying to decrease the recoil and flatten the trajectory of their "wonder rifle". This is generally absolutely ridiculous unless they restrict their shooting inside 300 yds.
If so, then why buy a Magnum?

The magnum cartridges out there are best at throwing the heavy for cartridge bullet at 100-200 fps faster velocity than a lighter weight 300+ fps faster.At longer distances the heavier, higher BC bullet will win every time and be affected less by other variables(wind,etc).

The heavier, higher BC bullet with a known "steeper" trajectory will win every time against a light weight at distance. Yes,More recoil=better accuracy at distance.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (09/10/06 11:25 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63762 - 09/10/06 01:02 PM

I still stand by what I said. I said that many shooters try to shoot further than their capability allows. I also left room for the exceptions.
: The old .308, with a 10" twist is still a great 1,000 yard rifle, although my own prone shooting only went to 600 yards, it was respectable.
: When our new Rod and Gun club range is complete, we'll have 1,400 meters &I may have to build a new rifle for play. This new range will allow more hunters, perhaps, to hone long range skills out to reasonable game ranges, and get the practise they require.
: How many guys do you know of can keep 3 out of 3 shots in an 8" circle from sitting, prone or standing supported positions at ranges further than 100 yards? How many do you see at the range have trouble doing that at 100 yards from any position other than from the bench, where 98%+ do their range shooting.
: My daughter is the only one other than myself I've ever seen shooting positions other than the bench, in the last year, at the range. I go at least once a week, every week, sometimes 2 or 3 times. Being retired helps. Today, she shot a 10 consecutive shot group at 100 meters, elbow rest, no bags, that had 8 out of ten inside 1 1/2" with the ooutside 2 opening up the group to 2 1/4". I see very few who can do that off bags, these days. She is now jsut getting used to her .260, her first rifle that has yet to see 300 rounds through it. She may be capable, but so many aren't.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DPhillips
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63763 - 09/10/06 01:22 PM

hop,
Banjo string trajectory isn't the only reason we buy magnums. I think the original idea, and most of the reason for the magnum's I buy, was/is to shoot heavier than normal bullets at velocities of the magnum's standard brethren.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: DPhillips]
#63767 - 09/10/06 08:44 PM

I will use myself as an example.

There is an area in my hunting club that routinely offers 300 yd shots, max, I banged away for several seasons with a 7 mag dealing with more gun size and weight when---??????

Then I thought why bother.I brought my 7mm08, compensated for the 5 inches trajectory @ 300 and did just fine. The deer certainly couldn't tell the difference.

The magnums with higher high BC bullets and a scope with mil dots or ranging bars like the TDS, Leupold, and others work if you play with them. They will make you a better rifleman.

I will say that lighter weight bullets in Magnums can be used faster for more impressive bullet expansion and rapid kills and better putdowns in deer size animals but the non magnum calibers kill them just as dead.In elk etc,the game is different and they deserve a premium expanding bullet
as discussed above.

On one food plot we have a 600 yd possible shot and the 7mm Mag Sendero with Swarovski TDS and laser range finder go there.There is about a 15 minute window with no wind at dawn and dusk good for long distance.For me 450 yds is my max on a good day with all variables ok. I have a buddy who has made a 600 yd shot but I don't consider that possible or ethical for gameshooting for me. The bullet out there is falling like a rock and an error of 20yds due to shooting angle, distance, or wind, makes BIG DIFFERENCES in its trajectory.This is shooting from a shooting house with a gun rest,etc.

If you practice with shooting sticks then I think 250-300 yd shots may be possible. If you don't practice with the shooting sticks then you shouldn't try to shoot them in long range game situations.The worst positions I have shot from are prone with a magnum.OUCH!!

I will agree that if a hunter won't go out and personally shoot close to a box of his Magnum rounds at various distances prior to season that he is better off with a standard non magnum caliber.Other hunters just can't handle magnums period.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (09/10/06 09:10 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#63784 - 10/10/06 02:56 AM

Hoppdoc- your point is well taken concerning bullets. Many .338 shooters I see are using 165 to 185gr. bullets to lessen recoil, and in doing so, lose the 'main thrust' of that big bore. It was designed to use normal bullets of heavy weight to deliver deep penetration and large wound channels.
: The worst thing Speer Inc. ever did, was to discontinue it's most excellent 275gr. .338" Semi-Roundnose. With a BC of .470, it was not only a great Elk, Moose and Big Bear bullet at 2,600fps, it also was a great long range bullet.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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jro45
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Reged: 25/12/03
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Loc: DE, USA

Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: DarylS]
#64049 - 15/10/06 06:48 AM

One of the ranges I shoot at is 600 yds. And I can see what
Daryl_s is saying. I own the 300 RUM and the 338 RUM.

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allenday
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Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: hoppdoc]
#64437 - 23/10/06 12:42 AM

My favorite long range bullet in the 300 Win. Mag. is the 180 gr. Nosler Partition. It has a high ballistic coefficient (.474), opens up well and penetrates well at all ranges, drops animals decisively, etc. I've used it in long-range situations from Mexico to Africa, it's always has done the job, without fuss, episode, failure, or frustration.

Another favorite long-range bullet is the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in the 338 Win. Mag. If you want to turn your 338 Winchester into a varmint-accurate rifle with the ability to blow a big hole through the shoulder bones of big animals, such as elk, this is your bullet! I've fired this bullet into groups of under 1" at 300 yds., and I've never used a more accurate .338 bullet than this one........

AD

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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
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Loc: Spring, Tx...

Re: Best Big Game MEDIUM-LONG RANGE Bullet?? [Re: allenday]
#65623 - 10/11/06 09:28 AM

Well, the Palma Matches are for 308's at 800, 900 and 1000 yds, open sights only...that being said, they use 155 gr bullets...do not know what the energy is from 155 @ 1000 yds but it can't be much...

Need SD to carry the energy to long distances...in 30 cal, probably 200 gr is best, that is what I shoot in my 300 H&H at elk, but the 165 gr is great on deer at any range..

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