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Hunting >> Hunting in the Americas

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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
GPS
      #64581 - 24/10/06 02:40 PM

Hi Guys: My name is Keith McCafferty. I am the Survival editor of Field&Stream. We are putting together the cover story for the February issue on navigation. I am interested in hearing from anyone who has had personal experience, good or bad, from relying on GPS for navigation. Particularly, the bad. For example, GPS told you it was only half a mile to camp but didn't inform you of the cliffs inbetween. I'm trying to stress to readers to not rely soley on GPS for safe travel. Thanks in advance. I'll be out of town for a few days but will respond when I get back. Keith

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: GPS [Re: bluedevil]
      #64600 - 25/10/06 06:56 AM

Keith

Welcome.

I don't have any bad expriences with GPS's - partly as I have only just got one for marking downed game - I am lucky in that my military training taught me to navigate with a compass, protractor and Map to Ground.

Where I see a problem with GPS's is that
1. If the unit failed, generally people don't have ANY Navigation, Map Reading and general knowledge to fall back on.
2. Some people can use a GPS but can't even use a basic Compass.
3. Re Batteries failing, people say - Oh, I carry a spare set of batteries but this doesn't take into account if it gets dropped in water or they do get lost for 3 days.

A Bad example of the type you are using that I have seen is GPS's used in boats traversing back to harbour etc. The GPS tells you the straight line direction to go but doesn't take into account Tides, Wind, Sand Bars etc which is what TRUE Sea Navigation takes into account.

Just my HO but I like what you are doing.

500 Nitro



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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: GPS [Re: bluedevil]
      #64652 - 25/10/06 11:54 PM

I'm a boater and have been using one for years. No reason to question them. Plug in the coordinates and follow them.
They are accurate up to 8 feet. The example of a cliff between you and where you want to go is easy keep going until you get there. Follow them and trust your equipment without question.
Mariners and pilots bet their lives on them.
Learn your equipment, use it and follow it.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: GPS [Re: foxfire]
      #64656 - 26/10/06 12:27 AM

No problems with GPS navagation.

You just plots the segments of your journey and retrace your steps.

Yes if your batteries go bad you have problems, but GPS is great on getting to your deerstand in the predawn or returning at night. You gotta have batteries for your flashlight so why not carry them for the GPS too!!

GPS problems usually come from those not familiar with initializing the units in a different hunting region and inadequate recording of ongoing trip segments.

I think GPS is great!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: GPS [Re: bluedevil]
      #64666 - 26/10/06 04:14 AM

My biggest frustration with my hand-held Garmin Etrex Vista is that it loses the signal if in heavy cover. In summer our eastern US forests are dense enough to disrupt the signal.

Otherwise, I like it fine.

Curl



--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: GPS [Re: bluedevil]
      #64668 - 26/10/06 04:24 AM

Keith,

Sounds like you are starting with a negative attitude about GPS, are you sure you can be objective?

Further it sounds like your experience with GPS is limited at best. Perhaps you need to find a writer with a bit more knowledge and experience with GPS.

Your example about the guy who was a 1/2 mile from camp and didn't know there were cliffs in between is not very good. It wouldn't matter if the guy had a compass and/or a map the cliffs would still be there and he shouldn't be. He should be able to find his way back to camp just by dead reckoning alone, and know where the cliffs are from looking at the map.

Even if he did encounter a cliff the GPS would be better to have to navigate back to camp as it will show him where he is unlike a map-compass which only tell him where he thinks he might be, if he paid attention and he knows how shoot azimuth to properly identified landmarks.






--------------------
DD, Ret.


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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: GPS [Re: bluedevil]
      #64887 - 30/10/06 11:16 AM

Keith,

I have used GPS units rather extensively on boats for many years with no problems whatsoever, and the same while hunting in our Norwegian forests and mountians. I have also used GPS for navigation while driving from Norway to South Africa for a year. Much of it offroad in trackless desert and bush. In all of the cases above, having a decent map has been needed to navigate safely IMO. Despite having GPS topographical maping on the GPS units. Although I have yet to encounter a GPS unit dying on me, I always have a compass and paper map just in case.

As for your example of "GPS told you it was only half a mile to camp but didn't inform you of the cliffs inbetween.", I have been spared this experiance in general since I realize the limits of following a GPS or compass blindly. Both are useless if you don't look at the map. However, I have been dragged into a couple of situations that were simular to what you mention.

While in Sudan a few years ago, I was asked by a local we got to know if we would help him find an old abandoned fort deep in the desert. It was built back in the time of Kitchner and the Mahdi. As we found this to be an interesting adventure, we agreed to help him and made a plan from some maps he had, where the location of the fort was marked by a dot. He was a typical example of someone who had all the gear, but didn't know how to use it properly. Or so we were to soon find out! At the time, we naively thought that he had a bit of desert experiance, being a local...

I did however quickly understand that he was not used to using his dashboard mounted GPS, and I was the one who had to plot in the co-ordinates for him. This should have woken me up. But, being a guest in the country, especially in a country where honor and keeping face is extremely important, I had no choice but to let him lead the way, with the help of the GPS co-ordinates. Mind you, the map did not show any topographical info (a lot of desert maps in north Africa rarely do), so we would have to use our heads, in addition to following the GPS arrow. Alas, our local friend had a hard time understanding this. This resulted in him litterally trying to drive OVER mountains and some extremely rough terrain, instead of going around and coming back to course on the other side. Which would have been no problem with the GPS. As our Land Rover was loaded with around 1000kg more than his Land Rover (due to ours having all our equipment that we need to cross the African continent), I was not very happy with his choice of routes. Some of the razor sharp fields of lava we drove over were so bad that I was waiting for all 4 tires to puncture at once! And as he drove like a maniac, it was virtually impossible for us to catch up with him, and tell him to follow me instead. We even honked our horn for ages to get his attention. This went so far that we discussed letting him drive on like he was, and leaving him to go our own way. However, since I understood by that time that he was not familier with the desert, and his wife was in his car with him, we felt we couldn't abandon them. In case something happened, in which case they would need our help. Finally he stopped up, as he literally got stuck in an area with sand and dunes. I spent some time explaining that it was much better to go around mountains rather than over them, and from then on took over being in the lead.

One other example was while we were in Mauritania, near the coast. We joined up with a German couple in their mid 60s for some days, and we quickly understood that he looked upon himself as being very experianced with desert driving. And he let everyone he met know it... As I had no reason to bother playing power games with him, I decided to let him lead our little convoy. It was clear that this was important to him, as he was the kind of guy who typically liked to be in charge. But, I knew already that despite his desire to lead, he was not necessarily capable of leading us safely. So I decided to make sure I'd do my own navigating, just in case. We both plotted in a route of waypoints that he had gotten from a friend, and eventually set off. But I continuously kept an eye on the maps to make sure we were where we should be etc. And after a couple of days, we came to a flat partion which I saw on the map ended up at the north side of a large bay along the Atlantic ocean. The next waypoint however was at the other side of the water, all the way out at the mouth of the bay. This wasn't possible to see since it was so flat, but the map told me so. And heading towards the waypoint would mean several hours of extra driving! After a bit of honking and light flashing, we were able to stop the Germans and get them and us turned in the right direction. Basically, the route we had was missing 1 rather vital waypoint, which should have been at the innermost part of the bay. There was no danger involved, but it would have certainly wasted several hours of driving if I hadn't kept an eye on the map at the same time. Needless to say, the German fellow was a bit embaressed, and toned his attitude down a notch or two. And I think he wife enjoyed seeing him be put in his place, as she gave us a big wink when he wasn't looking.

One thing these experiances have resulted in is that I basically don't trust anyone else but myself to get me to where I want to go.

Erik


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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
Re: GPS [Re: EricD]
      #65278 - 04/11/06 12:08 PM

Thanks Eric and to all of you. Perhaps I should clarify that this is to be a 10-page feature touching upon all the types of navigation foot hunters might find useful, including no-help methods such as the home base method and dead reckoning, orienteering with map and compass, and GPS. I am including personal stories that point to the limitations of relying on any one method. GPS batteries can and do fail, the LCD screen may go blank in extreme cold (this happened to me once at 30 below in Montana), the GPs unit can be lost or simply quit working. My brothers E-Trex quit cold on him in the Scapegoat Wilderness, for example. The company replaced it -- after he had to find his back using other methods. I'd appreciate any personal experiences you have had (hunting, not boating). Thanks in advance. Keith
PS By the way, I am a double rifle afficionado -- that's how I came to your fine website.


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