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NitroXAdministrator
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8x75 mm RS in a double?
      #64168 - 17/10/06 02:28 PM

I noticed Heym makes medium calibre double rifles in the 8x75 mm RS chambering.

Has anyone ever seen a rifle or used a rifle in these chambering?

As a rimmed round it answers one of the criticisms of doubles chambered for such as the .300 Win Mag but with similar performance.

I believe it is based on the 9.3x74R case. Is this correct?

Any information and history of the round would be much appreciated. Thanks.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64169 - 17/10/06 02:30 PM

In reply to:

Any information and history of the round would be much appreciated.




Johan will probably say it was the favourite round of my "Uncle Hermann" which is a standing joke between us.



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pwm
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64170 - 17/10/06 02:40 PM

yes, was developt from 9,3x74R around 1930, there exist also a 8x75S rimless and a similar rounds in .318 I bore.
There was a combo in german gun magazin 2 years ago with a 470 NE and a 8x75RS barrel sxs.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: pwm]
      #64191 - 18/10/06 03:51 AM

Is pressure an issue with this round in a double?



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Yochanan
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64199 - 18/10/06 04:46 AM

In reply to:

Johan will probably say it was the favourite round of my "Uncle Hermann" which is a standing joke between us.





John,

So, you have finally managed to get up from the plonk tank and checked your email. Vinegar must be in demand since you are so busy Some articles in German? Now, why did I do that...... I sent you the drawings for this cartridge over 6 months ago

Yes, your Uncle Hermann had an O/U double in 8X75R

Cheers
Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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AdamTayler
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Yochanan]
      #64288 - 19/10/06 02:09 PM

In reply to:

Vinegar must be in demand since you are so busy




That's funny.

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new_guy
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64305 - 20/10/06 02:32 AM

Pressure is in the 35K PSI range. No problem for a double.

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foxfire
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64313 - 20/10/06 03:54 AM

John, This is a reprint from the 1980 Cartridges Of The World
4th edition by Frank C. Barnes. Hope this helps.

[image][/image]

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400NitroExpress
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64316 - 20/10/06 04:28 AM

Yeah, it's based on the 9.3X74R case, but pressure is higher. CIP max average for the 8X75RS is 3800 BAR or 55,114 PSI. That's higher than I would be comfortable with in a double for my own use. For comparison, CIP max average for the .375 Flanged Magnum is 3250 BAR or 47,137 PSI: the .30 Super Flanged (.300 Flanged Magnum) is 3200 BAR or 46,412 PSI; The 9.3X74R is 3400 BAR or 49,312 PSI; the .470 NE is 2700 BAR or 39,150 PSI.

The long 8 is a fine cartridge and a better choice in a double rifle than a 63,000 PSI Belted Magnum, but it isn't a low pressure cartridge.
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new_guy
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #64318 - 20/10/06 04:45 AM

Sorry, Mark is right. I was reading 8x57.

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Yochanan
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: new_guy]
      #64340 - 20/10/06 08:00 PM

John,

I don’t see any trouble of having a modern double in 8X75RS. Pressure for the round (Pmax(MAP) 55114psi 3800 bar. Pezio Cip measuring method) is the same as for 30R Blaser, 8,5X63R, 7X65R Brenneke or 6,5X65R RWS. 8X65RS the figures are Pmax(MAP)58740psi 4050bar.

A double in good quality material shouldn’t have any problem with these cartridges. There been more than a few doubles built for hot rocks like 300 win mag, 458win, 375H&H and they seems to hold up well- Personally I don’t like rimless cartridges in a beak top action design.

If I should rechamber some old double of questionable life and unknown material quality, not been re-proofed I would look at rounds with the lowest possible pressure, in fact, I would most likely not bother with a double that not been re-proofed.

Cheers
Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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long8R
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #64674 - 26/10/06 07:44 AM

The 8x75RS was designed by the german DWM under a requirement of Berhs Waffenwerke, Shul. It was introduced circa 1907 and it is based on the 9.3x74R case. As I said in an older post, the 8x75RS is now standard offering for Krieghoffs doubles, single shots and drillings, as well as for Blasers (S2, K95, BBF) and Heyms (80, 88, etc.). It is also chambered in new fine guns ( peter hofer ).

I bought my Krieghoff double 8x75 RS before the summer of 2005 and I used it with open sights during the driven hunts (monterías) season of 2005-2006 (October to February). I finished the season very pleased with the combination of rifle and cartridge. Some hunters here in Spain, and I agree with them, think that a 180 to 200 grains partition type bullet with soft first body (i.e. Nosler Partition, RWS DK, Sologne GPA) moving at muzzle velocity higher than 790 m/s (2,600 f/s) makes a good balance for Spanish (Centre and South) driven hunts, when game (wild boar and red deer mainly, mouflon and fallow deer occasionally) just weight 30 to 160 kg (66 to 330 pounds) but must be shot while running at speed fully pumped of adrenaline pursued by packs of dogs ( rehalas ) formed by hounds ( sabuesos and podencos) and bulldogs (alanos, mastines and now argentine dogos as well).

Although shooting in montería usually means short distance quick shots made using the window offered in dense cover by a narrow rough forest way ( cortadero ), which game cross running for its life, longer shots are sometimes possible. In order to facilitate such longer shots and, moreover, to prepare myself and the rifle for using it on stalking (in Spain and hopefully on plains game in Africa), I put a Nickel Magnum 1.5-6x30 variable riflescope on top of my Krieghoff ( Nickel ) once the 2005-2006 season ended.

My previous open sights regulation gone with the added weight. But after some work with the regulating device that the Krieghoff Classic is provided with (a screw between barrels), I eventually managed to regulate it again, now for the scope, with Sologne GPA ( GPA bullet ) factory load; 196 grains at 836 m/s (2,740 f/s).

The new 2006-2007 season had to start for me on Sunday October 22, and three days before I went to the shooting range to verify regulation. Here it is the target at 50 meters (55 yd) following a R-L (D-I), R-L sequence. All seemed to look fine.

foto 1

And then the great first day of the season arrived. The montería was in a fantastic property in Ciudad Real province, bordering Cabañeros National Park, full of lush pastures, mountain ranges and massifs covered in forests and Mediterranean scrub. When we came to our position, a 10 to 12 meters (33 to 39 ft) wide cortadero within a dense covered mount slope looking at the Estena river, I thought “ops! perhaps the worst place to use my new scope for the first time”. Additionally, it was raining quite hard and a high wind often blew, thus reducing our chance to hear game when approaching. Nevertheless, my 9 years old son an I were absolutely happy and ready for the events to come.

First game we saw were a group of three red deer when they crossed the cortadero at full speed. My son yelled “Dad, the second one!” meaning that second in the running stag row was clearly the biggest. I fired the second twice but I missed at no more than 15 meters (49 ft). I was not really able to correctly aim at the target through the scope (2x) doing the swing needed to hunt running big game (in fact, a swing quite similar to bird shooting). I felt certainly disappointed because it looked like a nice trophy but, anyway, things were just starting.

After some does rushed around, a stag walked through the cortadero and suddenly stopped. I fired immediately but no reaction of the buck was observed, disappearing from view in the cover. I could not believe my miss (this stag was afterwards found dead by the hounds 200 meters away with a lung shot, back from my intended aiming point below the shoulder and above the heart).

Losing rapidly my self-confidence, the third hunting event was a rush of three bucks too. This time I hesitated to fire because all of them looked small to me but nevertheless I fired at the third, ... and I missed. Once again I did not do the swing as it must be done.

Completely frustrated I began to prepare myself for a zero game first montería , and the worst thing was that my son started to grumble “Dad, what are you doing?”. While I was thinking what to answer I saw out of the corner of my eye a wild boar crossing the cortadero at top speed. I fired instinctively and I felt that the boar shrank while running. Fortunately enough my son felt the same and both of us thought that perhaps we could avoid the zero score.

The sound of the wild boar’s run was still in the air when we heard a new run. A stag followed by a doe. Being far more relaxed, I was this time rapid enough for two shots properly swung (DR raison d´être!). With second shot the stag clearly lost support on his right front leg.

The montería ended and we found the wild boar (a male with representative tusks) and the red stag 15 meters (49 ft) away from our position, both with quite well placed shots on the shoulder. Once I did my job the double and the long 8 (I like this name, thank you 400NitroExpress) did their job too.

fotos 2, 3

The stag has a very nice 15 points antlers and thus what began as a kind of nightmare became a wonderful day. Even more, 2005 was, and 2006 was being, really dry years in Spain. Here we were needing rain desperately. On Sunday 22 it rained cats and dogs. Fine.

Best regards,

Long 8R (former 8x75RS, but I forgot my password and have changed my e-mail adress)


Edited by long8R (27/10/06 07:26 AM)


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kweber
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: long8R]
      #64958 - 31/10/06 08:39 AM

long 8r, thank you for the story about your hunt! allthough I do not have a double, the 8x75r sounds like a perfect medium cartridge. I have fancied a Krieghoff in .500-.416 with matching 8x75r barrels. I also dream of Africa. slim chance of either in the near future! Kurt.

Edited by kweber (31/10/06 08:40 AM)


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Dr_Deer
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: kweber]
      #189780 - 12/09/11 04:34 PM

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...

Does a chamber reamer in this cartridge completely remove all traces of a 8x57IRS chamber, or does the "wide" shoulder of the x57IRS remain?

Edited by Dr_Deer (12/09/11 05:02 PM)


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moorjaeger
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #189909 - 14/09/11 05:01 PM

Here are some informations in German


www.jww.de/r30/vc_content/bilder/firma445/Archiv-2005/030_033_wiederladen_jww_02_0205.pdf


Greetings

Andreas


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DarylS
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #189922 - 15/09/11 12:49 AM

Quote:

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread...

Does a chamber reamer in this cartridge completely remove all traces of a 8x57IRS chamber, or does the "wide" shoulder of the x57IRS remain?




A fired round from the 8x57IRS would be needed, along with a normal fired round from the 8x75R, I'd expect. One might be able to make that connection on measurments at that location.

Prints of the chamber specs in actual size 1:1 could also be measured for an 'idea'.

Trouble is, reamers vary in all chamberings, with new reamers being larger than those having been sharpened. Getting a shoulder measurement is much easier than getting the body measurement of the longer case, however one can extrolate from base to shoulder, making a chart for straight tapers, if you get my drift. That should give a very close measurement of the differences.
normally, the body of the longer case will be larger than the shorter one, unless the shorter case actually has an improved shape, ie: AckImp, etc.

The 8x75RS seems to have a fairly good shoulder, therefore at the 1.8"(approx body length), the 8x75RS should be larger than the 8x57 case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rolf
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: DarylS]
      #189956 - 15/09/11 08:30 PM

Gentlemen,

if someone would assist in inserting photos in this thread, I can offer to take some pictures on a double rifle from gunsmith Scheiring of Austria in .375 H&H with an additional barrel set in 8x75 RS.

Date of photo session is 24th of Sept., for on this date I visit the happy owner.

best regards
Rolf


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DarylS
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Rolf]
      #189971 - 16/09/11 02:14 AM

.375H&H - standards in SAAMI and CIP in pezio pressure is 62,000PSI - both US and European.

CUP and CIP (copper pressure) listing is 53,000 and 54,000 respectively.

The 8x75RS is listed as 55,000PSI in CIP rating, 7,000 less than the .375H&H.

I suspect rim/head sizes are close, but do not have that data at hand.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Dr_Deer
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Rolf]
      #189996 - 16/09/11 01:29 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

if someone would assist in inserting photos in this thread, I can offer to take some pictures on a double rifle from gunsmith Scheiring of Austria in .375 H&H with an additional barrel set in 8x75 RS.

Date of photo session is 24th of Sept., for on this date I visit the happy owner.

best regards
Rolf




Rolf,

When you have pics send me a PM and I'll upload the pics on my photobucket account - keen to see such a double


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Rolf
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #190008 - 16/09/11 08:24 PM

Dr_Deer,

all agreed!
Please send me your mail adress, then you can expect to get some huge mails on Sunday, the 25th of September...

best regards
Rolf

BTW: There is also a Scheiring break-top single shot rifle in 7mm STW with full engraving available...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: long8R]
      #321206 - 03/11/18 08:23 PM

Saw this old thread was being read so had a look seeing I started it!

Interesting story by "long8R".

Pity he posted only one post!

I think hunting in a monteria is not as easy as sometimes thought by the numbers of game harvested. Shots are beasts running at full speed, with a narrow gap "window" are not my forte! Perhaps if at closer range than normal. And as said, a very good reason for a double rifle with two very quick shots being available.

I remember one German acquaintance poo pooed double rifles because they only had two shots available, and also any bolt action rifle other than straight pull rifles as he claimed they were too slow to reload. Again driven game was the reason.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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xausa
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #321216 - 04/11/18 02:33 AM

I don't have an 8X75RS, but I do have a Krieghoff combination gun with 16 ga./7X75R barrels. The shot barrel is fitted with a full length insert barrel in 6X52R Bretschneider, which gives me an instantaneous choice of calibers for close range and long range shots.

I also have a Krieghoff drilling in 16/16/8X65RS caliber, and I am quite pleased with it as well. While not as powerful as the 8X75RS, the 8X65RS is no slouch. The ballistics are similar to the wildcat 8mm-'06, which was a popular cartridge immediately after WW II, when ammunition for 8X57IS bring back Mausers was hard to find.


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DarylS
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321217 - 04/11/18 06:18 AM

Xausa, Is the insert barrel is adjustable so you can adjust it, that is 'sight' it in to the sights set for the 7x57R barrel?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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xausa
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: DarylS]
      #321233 - 04/11/18 07:25 PM

Quote:

Xausa, Is the insert barrel is adjustable so you can adjust it, that is 'sight' it in to the sights set for the 7x57R barrel?




Yes, it's a K & S
https://www.einstecklauf.de/classic.html

The 6X52R Bretschneider is the .22 Savage Hi Power (5.6X52R) necked up or the .25-35 Winchester (6.5X52R) necked down to 6mm.

The rifle barrel is a 7X75R. btw.


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Yochanan
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Re: 8x75 mm RS in a double? [Re: xausa]
      #321240 - 04/11/18 10:48 PM

Quote:

I don't have an 8X75RS, but I do have a Krieghoff combination gun with 16 ga./7X75R barrels. The shot barrel is fitted with a full length insert barrel in 6X52R Bretschneider, which gives me an instantaneous choice of calibers for close range and long range shots.

I also have a Krieghoff drilling in 16/16/8X65RS caliber, and I am quite pleased with it as well. While not as powerful as the 8X75RS, the 8X65RS is no slouch. The ballistics are similar to the wildcat 8mm-'06, which was a popular cartridge immediately after WW II, when ammunition for 8X57IS bring back Mausers was hard to find.




I owned an FN B25 double in 8x57IRS with 65m cm barrels. I sold it to an exchange student from France whom had to re-chambered to 8x65rs for the reason for velocity. The guy thought 165-180 grain frangible bullets like Norma Plastic tip etc. was the medicine for game on driven hunts. Now I regret not keeping the double and had it rechamrered to 8x65RS... 8x57IRS is a bit slow and booring...

I bought an 9,3x74r instead, which, proved to be a nightmare with almost any load availble....saucer size groups as best at 80m is not great for confidence...

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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