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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
What is it? 16x16x450 express????
      #63124 - 27/09/06 07:20 AM

What was/is this gun for???

I cannot understand what that size rifle round is doing on a drilling.....

Any clues?

Came across it while looking for doubles.

Ben

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: What is it? 16x16x450 express???? [Re: empirevr]
      #63133 - 27/09/06 02:37 PM

this will be the german form of the 450 BPE

possible 11,5x60R 450
11,5x65R 450
11,5x82R 450

all Blackpowder or Nitro for Black rounds, making in germany and austria till WW 2.

notice: chamber dimensions from many of this old guns follow the old coiled case very close and will not fit the later british form without resizing

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: What is it? 16x16x450 express???? [Re: pwm]
      #63134 - 27/09/06 02:44 PM

please post the link, allways interesting to see

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: What is it? 16x16x450 express???? [Re: pwm]
      #63163 - 28/09/06 03:53 AM

Hi PWM

French gun,great maker it seems......

http://www.pugsguns.com/displayItem.do?id=786&pictureIndex=1

What was it for??? odd calibre for German forest hunting......or French.

What a handsome looking piece.

Shame it wasnt nitro though........

Ben

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: What is it? 16x16x450 express???? [Re: empirevr]
      #63165 - 28/09/06 05:09 AM

great gun, not what I have waiting for, if making in france I think its 450BPE 3,25".
You know that this round isnt a dangerous game round, it was loaded in france from Gevelot till W W2.
German gunwriters around 1880 thinking it was unnecessary strong for hunting and will only give EXPRESS RECOIL.
But in territorys with dangerous game like the south-east border of the old austrian-hungary monarchy with bears and very big wild boars they had have friends.
Look for the Collath Double rifle under classic guns just now.
The famous hunter and writer August von Spieß started his career with a double rifle and a drilling in 450 BPE, comes in trouble with a bear because an reloaded round, fired before in the double rifle , stick in the chamber of the drilling and he wasnt able to remove it from the chamber or close the gun and fire.
In this times it wasnt usual to resize the fired case and chamber dimension differ from gun to gun.
My belive is that the 450 3,25" was developt for long rang hunting in scottland. Its only a theory but the open areas in the highlands need a blackpowder round so powerful as it can make.
I see no difference between deer stalking in scotland and long range paper punching, these are to sides of a medal.

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: What is it? 16x16x450 express???? [Re: pwm]
      #63167 - 28/09/06 06:20 AM

Hi

But the 450x31/4 round was a dangerous game round......used for tigers in India.

I think one guy used it on elephant even,but with extra-precise shots.

Beautiful looking gun,dont you think?

Doesnt fit my needs very well,maybe to an extent but perhaps more importantly.....i am thinking double rifle.

I will surely be getting a drilling also,but probably a German/Austrian gun,aged,with engravings in more standard calibres.

And you??? drilling?

Ben

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