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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
.404 Jeffrey
      #6305 - 31/12/03 12:35 PM

I've recently read more about this old cartridge.

Are any rifles currently produced in this caliber?

Specifically, I'm interested in either a single-shot, like the Ruger #1, or a bolt action rifle, like the Winchester M70 or Ruger Magnum.

Anyone know? Thanks!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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wffHein
.224 member


Reged: 23/12/03
Posts: 17
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6308 - 31/12/03 02:31 PM

We manufacture the Palouse Trophy Series Rifle which is built on our N Series Action (Model 70 Style). It is available in any standard caliber including 404 Jeffreys. for more information go to www.rifleactions.com or email me at karl@rifleactions.com.

--------------------
Karl Webber
Waffenfabrik Hein
www.rifleactions.com
karl@rifleactions.com


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
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Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6315 - 31/12/03 04:34 PM

I am not aware of any production rifle chambered in the 404 and that is a real shame. It has accounted for many, many more Large animals and DG than any two other similiar calibers.

I am fortunate enough to have an original Jeffery and I have carried it around the world. It is light and handy, a mod 98. If I lost this one I would make another in hurry. It shoots a 400 grain Woodleigh at 2250 (my load) and a 350 at 2550. A mild recoiling rifle.



A 375, but better.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6319 - 31/12/03 09:08 PM

I am having a 404 Jeffrey built on a Montana Rifle Co.'s long action with a Lothar-Walther .423 Heavy Magnum Sporter barrel. John Ricks is putting the rifle together for me.
The rifle will reside in very nice a Watts Walnut American Black Walnut stock. Hopefully the rifle will be ready in late Spring.

It is a fitting companion to my 450/400 3 inch.



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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mcb
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Reged: 18/12/03
Posts: 24
Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6327 - 01/01/04 02:29 AM

Its not a 404 Jeffrey but Remington entire line of Ultra Mags (7mm, 300, 338, and 375 RUM) are based on the 404 Jeffery's case. I would think it would not take to much to get an action for a 338 or 375 RUM and have it rebarreld for a 404 Jeffrey. The bolt and magazine would not have to change just drop a properly chambered barrel in and you would have a new Remington 700 in 404 Jeffrey. Not sure you would want a pusher bolt in a cartridge you could use on dangerous game but it would be doable.

mcb

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: mcb]
      #6330 - 01/01/04 04:39 AM

Thanks to all for the great information!

wffHein: I'll keep you guys in mind, thanks.

Mickey: That Jeffrey bolt gun of yours is a real beauty! How's it shoot?

Rusty & mcb: I may have one built too, if I can't find anything else. I've been shooting & handling big-game rifles for years (Rugers, Winchesters, BRNO), so I'm sorta set on one with the Mauser-claw extractor, rather than Remington's design, though I'm not saying they don't make fine rifles too.

Maybe it's that I've become spoiled by my a customized BRNO 602 in .375 H&H, with drop mag, etc., which shoots great. My Ruger #1 in 300H&H is also an accurate shooter. I've been wanting to add a nice 404 Jeffrey to this line-up, and just haven't decided whether it's less hassle (& expense) to get it in a bolt rifle or a single-shot.

FYI for the group: since I first posted, I've learned 3 things:

First, some years ago Ruger released a limited run of #1 "Tropicals" in .404 Jeffrey. Supposedly, only about 1500 were made, presumably for "collectors." I've tried to locate one, but haven't found any or seen any advertised for sale. Anyone seen one?

Next, I've heard second-hand that Parker-Hale rifles in .404 Jeffrey were once imported into the U.S. This was several years back. But I don't know who the importer is/was. Anyone know about this?

Third, in conversation with a big-bore friend it was suggested that an "easy conversion" (his words) might be just having a CZ 550 or Winchester or Ruger in 416 Rigby rebarrelled with a high-quality .404 Jeffrey tube. The .404 cartridge, he said, should work fine from the Rigby's existing action, bolt and magazine, as the two cartidges are nearly identical in length. This would save some expense.

Any comments on whether such a "conversion" is feasible? Rebarrelling the relatively inexpensive CZ 550 in 416 might be the place to start, if it'll work.

Thanks again.





--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6331 - 01/01/04 06:19 AM

Nick,
If you have the CZ, then, Hell yeah that's the way to go. A little work on the bolt face and some minor work on the action and the CZ with a .423 barrel ought to be good to go! Any big bore smith worth his bluing salts ought to make an easy job of it.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6343 - 01/01/04 12:43 PM

I had the use of a .404 Parker Hale, I think the model was an M81 African, for a couple of years.

Stupidly I let the rifle go when I moved overseas and it was sold by the owner to someone else.

Nice basic M98 rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NONE
.300 member


Reged: 15/12/03
Posts: 110
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6361 - 01/01/04 06:26 PM

Here is a CZ550 custom in .404 Jeffrey as well as other offerings.

http://www.hunting-rifles.com/S550DGR.htm

James F Nixon III

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6362 - 01/01/04 06:55 PM


Nick,

Don't rush into anything as I think a little bird mentioned to me 6 months ago
that Winchester MAY be releasing a Mod 70 in 404 Jeffrey. I will try to find out
more this week.

If not, buy a M98, Brno 602 or CZ 550 Action and reballrel it - I know it's not
a Jeffrey 404 but they come up good.

500 Nitro

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: 500Nitro]
      #6385 - 02/01/04 06:09 AM

Wow, how cool would that be.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: mickey]
      #6392 - 02/01/04 09:26 AM

Thanks for the additional information, guys.

500 Nitro: I've been watching both Winchester's Classic Safari Express & Ruger's Magnum line, but for sure I'll watch for the Win. Thanks for the tip. (If you hear anything more about it, please post it here).

I also checked out Savage's 116SE (Safari Express). It has controlled round feeding, and they used to offer it in a number of magnum calibers. But apparently they cut back on the variety - all I've seen it in is 458 Win.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #6768 - 11/01/04 02:58 AM

For 500Nitro:

I checked with my dealer "sources" around here about Winchester coming out with a 404 Jeffrey (presumably in their Safari Express), but nobody's heard anything like that.

I just wanted to check back to see if you've been able to come up with any new info. Thanks!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #7825 - 30/01/04 02:10 PM

hello, i have seen a 404 ruger #1 for sale, new in box, on line at www.newenglandcustomgun.com good luck in your search

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #7830 - 30/01/04 02:39 PM

nIck

Winchester is indeed making the 404 in their Custom Shop Safari Rifles. US$3000. They are listed on the Winchester website.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: mickey]
      #7832 - 30/01/04 03:07 PM

I have been using a 404 of one kind or another for 30 plus years...I have built myself 4 or them, but someone always wants them more than I....I have shot more Buffalo with the 404 than any other rifle caliber, with the 416 Rem running a close second...

I am presently making a 404 on a CZ-550 375 rifle...Don't use a 416 Rigby as the bolt face is way to large..The 375 action will hold 5 404s down and one in the chamber with a thick hollowed floorplate and new spring.....

It will have a Lothar Walther barrel and a turkish walnut stock...Brockmans is doing the metal and I am doing the stock...All my previous guns had 26" barrels, but this one is planned for 22 inches..for whatever reason, it is out of character for me to own short barrel guns, but everyone should have at least one shorty..

I once had an original FN Mauser in 404, that one I should have kept that one, but alas the whore in me, took the money an ran...

The 404 is a great caliber when properly set up and with a 26" barrel it will churn up 2650 FPS in most guns with a 400 gr. bullet of any kind...The load is 95 grs. of IMR-4831..This load was tested by NorthFork bullets for pressure and it is a near max and perfectly safe load..I expect I can get an easy 2500 from the 22" tube but will stop where the accuracy is best.....

The 404 is the full equal of the 416 Rem or Rigby, but I cannot tell that its any better. I do like the non belted big old torpedo looking case and it sure feeds well and most important the case design is friendly to extraction if problems occur...

Given my druthers, I will take a 404 Jefferys over any other bolt action caliber that I have used on dangerous game, including elephant..Mostly I have shot Woodleigh RN solids and GS Custom flat nose solids on everything...but Northforks SPs are great in the 404, and now Bridger Bullets makes a nice Flat nose solid.....IMR-4831 is the ONLY powder for that old girl IMO.....

You will not be disapointed in that one, I guarenteeeeee...

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RLI
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Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #7856 - 30/01/04 11:08 PM

Winchester has listed the .404 in the Custom section on their website .I think it is the Custom African Express or Custom Safari Express.

RLI

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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Pettson
.224 member


Reged: 31/01/04
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: RLI]
      #7920 - 31/01/04 11:27 AM

Hi all, first post here.

For some odd reason I've been lusting for a .404 for a long time.

Living in Sweden, old original British rifles are not plentiful, and with my current budget there is no way I could afford a custom rifle.

So I decided to build one. Originally, the plan called for a Mauser action. 98's are easier to find here, thanks to Husqvarna's production using the FN version. Cheap too!
But just as the plan was almost finished a beat-up .375 pre-64 turned up, so this is what I'm building now.

I'm very anxious to get the job finished now. Since I'm doing it myself it probably won't end up "custom grade", but at least it will be mine...

Pettson

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Pettson]
      #7921 - 31/01/04 11:37 AM

The pre 64 is an excellent base for a 404...the magazine (bottom metal) is the secret to proper feeding and I suggest a blackburn drop box but that also requires a new stock....The existing box can be extensively modified to work but will only hold two and perhaps 3 down if your handy...

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Pettson
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Reged: 31/01/04
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Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: atkinson6]
      #7923 - 31/01/04 11:48 AM

New wood is planned for. Blackburn or any other decent maker would be very interesting. But I'd prefer not to use a drop box. Although I love it on the Mauser, I think it doesn't quite match the lines of the Winchester. But that's just me.
Any other opinions or hints on redoing this rifle from .375 to .404 would be much apprechiated.

As it stands now, the action is trued, the barrel (octagonal) is shaped, threaded and chambered, and the bolt sleeve is colour case hardened. Don't know why really, but I think it looks good...
The rest is still to do.

Also, opinions on open sights and scope mounts wanted.

Pettson

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luv2safari
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Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #7943 - 31/01/04 02:17 PM

Ruger had a short run of 404 in their RSM a few years ago. They didn't sell. Everyone wanted the 375 or 416.

I am happy as a clam with my 416 RSM, except for the trigger...but that will soon change. OK, it is a bit heavy, too...there, I said it...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: luv2safari]
      #7984 - 01/02/04 09:18 AM

Pettson,
If one puts a stright down Talley, glem or ? bolt on a M-70 then the drop box looks as in place as on a Mauser IMO and the straight bolt is needed on a big bore to keep the bolt off the knuckle, depending on your hand size etc....

Luv2Saf,
The Ruger 77 404 was discontinued because the "experts" at Ruger chambered all of them with a European spec reamer and no available ammo or brass would fit the chambers, so rather than admit that they didn't know what they were doing, they chose to blame it on sales, CYA in big industry as usual, but this one was a real screwup and some heads should have rolled, did they, who knows, but I am sure it was a financial disaster...

I have seen where some gunsmiths in the states have done the same thing on ocassion...

A fairly common screw up is people ordering a 9.3 and 404 barrels barrel and getting a European bore size as opposed to a US spec. barrel...Happens with metrics....A 404 should be .423 and a 9.3 .366 same thing can happen with twists...

Point being, is deal with a knowledgeable smith and get the right reamers and barrels if you are building metric calibers, do your homework.....

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Pettson
.224 member


Reged: 31/01/04
Posts: 5
Loc: Sweden
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: atkinson6]
      #7995 - 01/02/04 11:50 AM

Thanks Ray. I will take your thoughts into consideration. The final plans on the stock and bottom metal are not carved in stone yet...

I got my barrel blank from Lothar Walther, it is a .423, now octagonal in shape. Don't remember what the twist is right now, as that is the least of my problems at the moment...

Pettson

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
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Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: atkinson6]
      #8015 - 01/02/04 04:26 PM

Ray,

Is there anything that can be done to re-claim the Ruger 404s? Are they so screwed up that they can't be fixed, short of re-barreling?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: .404 Jeffrey [Re: luv2safari]
      #8029 - 02/02/04 04:11 AM

Thanks to everyone for the great follow-up information.

I checked out Winchester's custom shop and see that the .404 is offered as a specialty. Price is pretty steep. But I wonder if they'll add it this year as a regular caliber in the Safari rifle? In a bolt gun, maybe going the CZ "conversion" route gets you to the same place with less expense.

The Ruger # 1 in .404 Jeffrey at NECG is tempting, but Atkinson's comment about the screw-up in chambering the M77s has me wondering whether this also happened with the run of .404 #1s? I had always seen that spec too - that a .404 has a .423 bore diameter. How hard can that be to screw-up?

FWIW, in his book, African Rifles, Gregor Woods mentions several times that over the decades the .404 Jeffrey has accounted for more large, dangerous game (LDG) than all the other big bores like the 416s and 458s. He notes that game-control officers really liked the .404 for taking out "nuisance" animals and for culling operations, whether it involved elephants, lions, buffalo, etc. He also cites the fact that the .404's 400gn load has the lowest "felt-recoil" of any of the 400-&-up bores, making it easy to shoot well for people who want to hunt LDG with something bigger than a 375H&H. Getting yourself less beat up with a .404 than, say, a 416 Rigby, would surely encourage one to practice with it more too.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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