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Brian
.224 member


Reged: 03/02/05
Posts: 41
Loc: NY (Delaware County)
8 bore rifle ammo needed
      #62216 - 07/09/06 12:08 PM

I am waiting for my 8 bore rifle from the uK, its a single shot, Jones underlever. If it arrives befo e the Vintager I would like to shoot it but have not gotten any brass or components.
Is there anyone out there who will be at the Vintager who has any rounds for this?

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Brian]
      #62310 - 09/09/06 11:25 PM

Dale

I have a lot of 8 Bore rounds in 8 and in 11 Dram loads. I will be at the Vintagers but with the rules on flying with BP ammo (you can't) don't see how that would help you.

If you will have a big enough press I could bring some brass, bullets and dies with me. Any idea what load you will be needing? How many will you need?

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Brian]
      #62323 - 10/09/06 07:18 AM

Brian,
How well do you know your 8 bore? I have 2 one is .835 the other .878 and a friend has one at .850. Obviously the ammo is not interchangable. The bullets have to be sized for the bore and the interior of the cases have to be able to accept the bullet. What case length does your 8 need? A good source for you would be Roland Hueber. His e-mail address is rh8borerifle@excite.com. He has many 8 bore components in stock bullets, wads and everything. If you had all the right components together and your bullets were sized correctly you could throw some loads together without a press. Good luck, the 8s are alot of fun!

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62481 - 14/09/06 04:22 PM

Gatsby: Sure would love to hear details about your 8 bores and loads.

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #62517 - 15/09/06 04:23 PM

Bill,
My small 8 is a H&H paradox 8 To 10 dram gun, the big 8(7) bore is a T. Bland 10 dram conical gun. I have shot them only with black powder, I use Swiss. Except for bullet sizing I assemble the rounds with a mallet,dowel and metal plate. I have recently added a crimping tool. I find that about 6 to 8 rounds to be adequate for a tripp to the range. Although I have been given some data on blue dot loads I haven't tried them, all the smoke is half the fun.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62519 - 15/09/06 11:46 PM

Gatsby

Any pictures of your Paradox? I have a H&H 10 Bore Paradox.

Also a Tolley 8 that takes 11 Drams.

I've always wanted to use the 10 for a combo hunt for pigs and Turkeys or something similiar.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: mickey]
      #62523 - 16/09/06 01:04 AM

Mickey,
I could e-mail some later today, I am not quite sure how to post them here. I think I know your 10, a beautiful gun. I have a well used 10 I intend to hunt with but I was thinking of something bigger than our home grown pigs but that certainly would be fun. If only we were in the land of Oz!
I think the 10's are the epitomy of a big bore big game rifle not too heavy and with tremendous clout. What is the weight of your 11dram 8 bore gun?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62532 - 16/09/06 11:10 AM

The 8 bore weighs in at 17 lbs. It has fluid steel barrels. I used to also have a Manton that took an 8 Dram load with Damascus barrels.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62546 - 16/09/06 05:02 PM

Gatsby, you wouldn't perhaps be the adroit Gent who beat me to Ray Meyer's Bland 8 that Lewis had for sale a few years back, would you?! If so, I would absolutely LOVE to hear about it, how it shoots, etc. I have his single 4 and a wonderful 10 (just spent the last 4 hours loading tomorrow's ammo for it). They are more fun than words can describe.
I've been looking for the perfect conical 8 for too many years. In my shallow opinion bar action hammer guns are hands down the most elegant ever made! If your gun is a different Bland, I would love to hear the details too. And if you ever decide to sell.....

Regards,
Bob (having TOO much fun!)

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62554 - 16/09/06 11:58 PM

Bob,
What's a days range ration with a 17 lb 4 bore conical rifle? That is one nice gun. What about your 10?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62581 - 17/09/06 12:22 PM

Gatsby,
I'm good for 3-5 shots, but usually those are 10dram 2F loads under a 2133gn conical, my 'practice' load. It still leaves a bruise even with a past-type shoulder pad and does ~1020fps. 14 drams FFg gave 1195 fps and 1154 for Fg, for exactly one shot each. Ray's load was 14dm Fg with the afore mentioned paradox type conical. I recently made a blunt 2000gn mold with a .800" flat on the nose that I think may work better if I ever put a critter in the sights. The bore on this gun is actually 1.005" (not 1.052) and was proved at 5/1. When I first started shooting it I fired 8-10-12-14 dram loads with Fg, FFg, and Goex cartridge, but lost the notebook in a move (!!!). Right now the gun is at Huey's but I plan to test my new bullet w/2F charges next month.
My 10 is a plain-jane Tolley 5 dram working gun that I love. I'm good for 20-25 of these. I'm still searching for the proper black load and today tried a short 775gn conical froma mold I just finished. Always more to do, which is half the fun .

Below is my last target with the Bland. Yep, I flinched like heck on the last one.



I would love to hear any details about your rifle, loads, etc.

Regard,
Bob












--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62583 - 17/09/06 02:25 PM

Bob,
I shoot 8 drams FFg and a 950 gr round ball+ or- round ball depending on the alloy and is a very pleasent load to shoot. I have a conical I use for a 10 dramFFg load. I ran across a single T Bland 8 that was the next serial # after mine and still had the original mold. I was able to get a casting and I need to get a mold made duplicating that conical. What is the weight of your 10?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62585 - 17/09/06 02:40 PM

Bob;
Where did you find the large ammo carrier. I really
would like one for my 10.
Thanks
Raff

--------------------
.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Raff]
      #62597 - 17/09/06 07:31 PM

Raff, a friend of a friend (a former saddle maker) made a pair of those carriers for $55 a piece with about a week's turn around. I just gave him some empties and described what I had in mind and was very impressed with the excellent work. He's making a 6 shot version for my 10 (2 5/8" standard diameter case) now. I'll get his card or loan you mine to try out after I pick it up if you're interested.

Brian, I've had excellent results with Dave Casey's (rockymountaincartridge.com) brass. If your gun is a 'standard" (if there is any such thing) .835" 3 1/4 paper case gun I'd bet he has it on hand. I've also just sent him a fired case and chamber casting before too, and while it took a while, the results were worth it and he now has the dimensions on file for future orders.

NEI has a far selection of pricey but well made molds (neihandtools.com) and may have a few that aren't listed on their website. Ballistic Products also has some wads, plastic industrial hulls, etc.

Best of luck with your new toy, please keep us posted on how it works out. I'm envious of the fun you guys are going to have at the Vintagers!

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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Raff
.300 member


Reged: 12/01/04
Posts: 182
Loc: Texas
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62605 - 18/09/06 01:32 AM

Thanks Bob, I would like to get one.
Raff

--------------------
.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Raff]
      #62681 - 19/09/06 02:46 PM

Gatsby, my 10 weighs 11lb 5 oz. by my scale. I took it along on a recent sheep hunt even though I'm still tweaking loads in case an unlucky black bear wandered thru camp, but no such luck (plenty of bears everyday but all were cubs or sows w/cubs).

Regarding your post on the subject of double rifles, I heartily second your opinion. I would much rather hunt with a plain gun made by incredibly skilled hands and used lovingly for a century than the lastest plastic super-mega magnum. I also sincerely hope someone 100 or 200 years from now respects the men who made and used them and has the chance to hunt and enjoy them as much as I do. Sherman Bell described them as 'time machines" and I think that's apt.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62824 - 21/09/06 02:19 PM

A five or six dram 10 would just bowl those bears over! Do you think your 10 was designed for use with round ball or conical? What cases do you use for reloading?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #62887 - 22/09/06 01:50 PM

Gatsby,
I use both RMC 2 5/8 brass cases and Federal plastic. The Federal are cheap, disposable, and easy to get a perfect crimp on the drill press, but don't seem as consistant as the brass.

I have noticed that the roll crimp seems perfectly intact on fired cases, which makes me wonder what this constriction does to the integrity of the fiber and card wads as they pass through or if it just stretches out of the way? I'm using a cup-type wad over the powder to hopefully compensate and I've found that it is often the wads that should seal the powder (rather than the bullet) anyway.

My gun was made for round balls with rounded 7 groove metford rifling of about 1 turn in 100" (guesstimate). The bores have a slight amount of choke in the last few inches, and there is a fair amount of variation in the land-to-groove measurements within each barrel. Put another way, when I measure a muzzle casting from a land to the opposite groove, the seven measurements for each barrel range from .775" to .784"!!!! A .775 ball tapped through the bore will show engraving marks with wide gaps (2x the size of the mark) between them. When tapped in from the muzzle end, they fall free after 4-5". I haven't turned down an AL bar to determine the land size but it's on my to-do list.
It may sound as if this is a bit frustrating, but I assure you I love absolutely every minute, because I'm confident of ultimately finding the proper loads/techniques that unlock the precision that skilled hands crafted long ago.

Brian, I hope your 8 arrived in time and would love to hear a report from you lucky blokes in NY.

Bob



--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by Omnivourous_Bob (22/09/06 01:59 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #62890 - 22/09/06 02:28 PM

Absolutely beautiful- thanks for sharing, Bob.
: I am certain you'll find a good load for it soon.
: I found in the 12 bore, than if plastic is set on the BP charge, it would streak the bores badly. I put a hard card directly on the powder and eliminated the streaking of plastic fouling.
; If you don't have Greener's book, his cross section drawing of a 10 bore (or 8 bore) brass case had a cushion wad on the powder, then another cushion wad, cupped on the fore edge, with the ball sitting 1/2 in this cup, and 1/2 out of the case. I assume it was lightly crimped around the centre.
: It sounds as if you should be trying a ball that is the correct size to engage the largest size within your bore. With an odd number of lands and grooves, as you seem to have, the actual groove diameter is larger than you can actually measure with calipers.
: If you already knew all of this, please excuse this post.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (22/09/06 02:29 PM)

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Brian]
      #64043 - 15/10/06 03:35 AM

Brian,
Did your gun arrive and were you able to put some loads together?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: gatsby]
      #64044 - 15/10/06 04:32 AM

Sometimes, when up here in B.C., fishing gets crowded. These grizzly cubs seemed oblivious to our presence. An 8 bore or .577 BPE might be just the ticket for these fairly close range shots. Even then, they'd feel unersized compared to the mother.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/Salmon%20Fishing%20on%20the%20Babine%20River/?action=view&current=P8190222.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/Salmon%20Fishing%20on%20the%20Babine%20River/?action=view&current=P8190225.flv


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (15/10/06 04:53 AM)

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Classic416
.300 member


Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: DarylS]
      #64052 - 15/10/06 09:32 AM

What an awsome photo. I think you are very lucky to be in such a beautiful place and so close to such magnificent beasts and also enjoying fly fishing. How big do those cuddly little bears get?
Ted

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: Classic416]
      #64068 - 16/10/06 02:18 AM

Oh, they're cuddly all right. I expect those were in the 300 to 350 pound range and will grow to well over twice that size intht area. Mom looked to be a good 800 to me as she dwarfed those cubs. Their fur is quite prime, yet isn't fully in yet. They'll all look better a month from now.
: The cub across the river from Dave, is only a 2 year old (1-1/2 yrs. to be exact), yet looks to be an adult. He is the largest of the three with the silvertip being the smallest. Boars can reach the thousand pound mark I'm sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: DarylS]
      #79732 - 01/06/07 09:27 PM

Bob,

Nice Tolley! WHEW, these threads are killing me.

Best,

John

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 8 bore rifle ammo needed [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #79802 - 03/06/07 12:48 AM

JTG

Where are you at nowdays?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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