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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
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Loc: Southeastern USA
FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES??
      #62048 - 04/09/06 12:46 AM

At the risk of being tarred and feathered (a little sarcasm there!) I will bring this topic up. Could this actually be better technology for shooting Doubles ?

I shoot a lot of handgun rounds because it is fun and I can shoot alot of rounds rapidly(great stress reliever after a bad day!) Many of the handguns I shoot better have fiberoptic sights. A front sight red dot seems to work great with snap shot placement for my aging eyes. The rear fiberoptics seem not as essential with extended practice. I have shot turkey guns with these type sights and I like them at distance as well.

I have never heard of a fiberoptic front sight on a double but it sounds interesting and may even help hunters with snap shot placement.
The light gathering ability/intense color is impressive and it could make the longer shot more accurate as well.

Any thoughts on having a fiberoptic front sight with standard express rear sights on a Double?



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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (04/09/06 12:51 AM)

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62052 - 04/09/06 01:44 AM

I am glad you brought the subject up because I have just fitted a couple of fibre optic front sights to some of my rifles and also a shotgun and it has improved my abbility to get on target by at least 100%.
Shakari is talking about fitting a fibre optic front sight to a new Sabi in 404 .
I believe your idea is great especially for us older blokes with failing eye sight..

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"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (04/09/06 01:58 AM)

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Bloodnativ
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Reged: 14/11/04
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Loc: South Carolina, USA
Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62053 - 04/09/06 02:29 AM

I believe it could be better technology for doubles. I know the purists will scream for a lynching but it's not any worse scoping a double, which seems to be an accepted practice among most shooters even if they don't practice it themselves. I think the folks who object are probably the ones who are fine without them. I have pretty bad eyesight and traditional iron sights are nearly impossible for me to shoot with accurately. Fiber optics are much better and of course scopes are best. FO sights look just fine on SxS shotties (and work well too) so why not on doubles? I'm considering putting fiber optics on my double that I'll get after I get back from A-stan in '08.

Not to hijack the thread but along the same lines, how about red-dot or holo-sights? I know they would look out of place but they are super quick, especially in close quarters or thick cover.

Hey, at least it's not muzzlebreaks or Magnaporting!

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luv2safari
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62057 - 04/09/06 05:20 AM

How durable are they? I've seen several broken ones. Will they take to being bumped around?

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Hunt with Class and Classics

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Ron_Vella
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Reged: 29/04/05
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Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: Bloodnativ]
      #62058 - 04/09/06 05:20 AM

I have just this week received the sights which I ordered from Brownell's for the .450 #2 which I'm building. The fibre-optic front sight is made by a company called Hi-Viz. It's made of steel, comes in 4 different heights, fits a standard 3/8" dovetail, and comes complete with 6 different F/O inserts. 3 are in chartreuse in sizes 1/16", 3/32", and 1/8". 3 are in the same sizes in fire red. It takes about 30 seconds to switch inserts with the help of the little plastic gizzie supplied for the job.The 1/8" fire red, combined with the hell-for-stout NECG, 2 leaf express rear, which I just filed up last evening, suits my 63 year old eyes like a pair of new eyeglasses. I can't say enough good about this sight, and I'm not easily satisfied with equipment. They certainly are a lot more succeptible to breakage than metal sights and they need to be protected with a hood which is made for them with windows in it to admit enough light to catch the F/O.

Edited by ronvella (04/09/06 05:28 AM)

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Grizzly
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #62059 - 04/09/06 06:35 AM

OK. I've been biting my tongue.

First, it is your rifle, and your to do with as you wish. Just save the old sights, though, since resale is going to be effected by fiber optics.

To me, this is just like the issue of recoil reducers. There are purists out there who recoil at the thought. (Pun intended). But if it allows you to shoot YOUR rifle more effectively, then go for it.

Second, an ivory bead front sight is great. If you haven't checked them out, do so. That addition will actally enhance the value of your double.

If eyesight is really an issue - as it is for most of us who couldn't afford the double dream until we were on the AARP mailing list - the scope is the way to go.

The mounts, I have learned, are very important. Claw mounts seem to get you the best of all worlds. As for scopes, there are some great low mag scopes with lighted reticles.

A scope with an illimunated reticle helps with the agng process. The scope itself tranforms a 3D target into a flat picture. An illuminated reticle is 10 times better for target acquisition than a fiber optic front sight.

Yes, price is an issue. Again, it's your rifle.

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SCI Life Member
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Ron_Vella
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: Grizzly]
      #62060 - 04/09/06 06:40 AM

What Grizzly says is true except that the addition of a scope will often dramatically affect the regulation of a double and often necessitates re-regulation by an expert.

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Rusty
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #62062 - 04/09/06 07:55 AM

my eyes are getting so bad that I'm looking for a big bright front sight too.

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Rusty
We band of brothers!
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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: Rusty]
      #62068 - 04/09/06 09:21 AM

I hope it works. I would change over a couple but I have used them on my Chukar gun and can't keep the damn thing from breaking if bumped.

Maybe I am too hard on them but a Double would get much more abuse from me than a 5 lb Shotty.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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hoppdoc
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: mickey]
      #62069 - 04/09/06 10:22 AM

I have not researched it but most of the cylindrical fiberoptic beads are not worth a crap if they are not in a steel cage.

I use such a set up from Hi Vis on the glock and show it no mercy whatsoever.The end of the gun is scarred allover from hitting objects fast drawing with door/contact target shots. It appears they are h*llbent for strong on the Glock.

I would think that they would work great on a Double. If you have eyes that can't focus because of presbyopia(old eyes) then acquiring that white ivory dot could STILL be hard. A flaming bright red front bead would seem to be the ticket but obviously it is up to the individual to decide.

Yes, I want to put a fiberoptic front bead on my Merkel. But on a high end Double, no way!!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (04/09/06 10:26 AM)

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greyhoundzr1
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Reged: 14/05/05
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62073 - 04/09/06 11:43 AM

Yes..I put one on my Searcy PH....ordered a Red fiber Optic 7.0MM from Brownells to replace the original.

Immense improvement in different light conditions at the range..especially with the sun in my eyes approaching twilight, where I had problems with the STD blade.

In "normal" light conditons, the fiber optic sight blade is much easier to pickup during quick target excercises etc.

For about 30 bucks from Brownells, give it a try, I think your old eyes will thank you (my did).

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62083 - 04/09/06 03:37 PM

I have a hunch that it wouldn't be very durable. I think the solution is better express sights.

I've suffered from poor eyesight all my life, which has gotten dramatically worse in middle age. My presbyopia is severe. For older eyes, I don't think there is any metallic sight that is as easy to use as a true express sight, but there are a lot of really bad fakes out there.

When they begin to have trouble with express sights, most guys assume the problem is the bead. I often shoot DRs that belong to friends and often run across rifles that I lose the front bead on when I try to line up. When that's happened the problem has never been with the bead, it's the rear sight. The rear V should be cut very wide and shallow. For me, a narrow V causes the front bead to fuzz out completely and a larger bead won't help at all. Also, it should be cut hollow enough on the front side to eliminate glare. The centerline below the V should be platinum, never white paint or gold fill. As bad as my eyes are, as long as the rear V is cut right, I have no problem using an .060" bead. Cut wrong, I can't see a .125" bead.

As for the front bead, it also must be cut right. The bead should be flat on the face of the steel stem. To eliminate glare from sidelights, the insert should have no depth to it at all when viewed from the side (in other words, the opposite of those from NECG, which are the worst I've ever used). As for material, nothing beats platinum. Compared to gold and brass beads, a platinum bead glows like a neon sign and is just as sturdy, yet has no greater issues with glare. Ivory is fine for a folding night bead, but is too delicate for a standing day bead.

Also, the fact that a DR has two barrels doesn't make it a shotgun. A .125" day-glo orange Idaho Baking Potato is fine for a bead on a shotty, but is useless on a rifle. I've used those on big doubles, and every shot at 100 yards was a Hail Mary. Anything bigger than .080" or so is just too coarse to be useful. Get the sights tuned up just right and you'll find that plenty big enough. If it isn't, go to a scope.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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hoppdoc
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #62095 - 04/09/06 08:34 PM

Thanks Much!!

I will ask who can modify Doubles with the platinum sights you discuss. I would love to try them as the factory sights on the Merkel seem lacking for snap shots.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #62098 - 04/09/06 09:46 PM

I disagree with the comments about platinuim front sights.
Iff your eye sight is failing then they are a waste of time.
#2.
When using open sights one should always focus on the front sight,not the rear sight.

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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EricD
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #62109 - 05/09/06 02:06 AM

400NitroExpress,

Would you happen to have a picture of your favorite front and rear sights?

Erik

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mehulkamdar
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62112 - 05/09/06 02:18 AM

I have always used open sights alone and shall continue to as long as my eyes allow me to. My bolt rifle has a copper coated front sight bead and the Knight muzzleloader that I recently bought came with a fibre optic front sight in orange. I have tried using both in dim light and the fibre optic sight does seem to make a difference in dim light though it does look fragile. In any case, I am careful with guns and do not give them the third degree - I shall hopefully get some good hunting this year during muzzleloading season with my Knight.

FYI I have 6/6 vision in both eyes though I have a health problem that is not going to let me see as clearly forever. I hope to enjoy hunting with open sights as long as I can.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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zimhunter
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62120 - 05/09/06 03:09 AM

I don't have fibre optic front's on my doubles but do on a couple of bolt bigbores. I prefer them but don't know where to get one for my Merkel. My quickest sights are on a S&W 45ACP AirLite. The rear is a rather wide /deep 'V' and the front is red HIVIZ fibre optic. It is totally encapsulated in clear plastic and presents a perfect red dot from the rear. They are about as quick as any sight pair I've ever used and stand up to holster and other use better that a regular front. My Chapuis 9.3x74r had a kinda wierd yellow see thru insert in the REAR sight that was pretty clear and and I had a Heym SR30? straight pull carbine in 35 Whelen that had the absolutely best combination I've ever had on a rifle. The rear was an ERA pedestal with a VERTICAL flourescent yellow rod in the blade from bottom to bottom of notch, the front was a flourescent red . You can't believe how quick they were. Wish I could find one of the rears but have never seen one advertised. They would be quick on a double. Sight picture looked like an 'i' with the bar yellow and the '.' red.

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Hollis500
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: zimhunter]
      #62123 - 05/09/06 05:39 AM

At the risk of taking this off somewhere else altogther. Id like your views on diamond sights as THE MAIN sight

I am thinking of 0.08 - 0.10" embedded diamond with the platinum line in back sight on my 500 NE that is being done up

I fired a friends 577 NfBP and it was excellent - like looking at a white matchstick standing proud in the barrel

Should I also fit the flip up moonsight as well - these seem to be enamelled and c 0.25"



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Hollis500

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: FIBEROPTIC FRONT SIGHT for DOUBLES?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #62152 - 06/09/06 01:36 AM

Hoppdoc:

Yeah, the sights on the Merkel aren't the greatest. They're not even express sights.

I'd have J. J. replace the rear bar with a wide V with platinum center wire. Make sure that it slopes forward. He can install a new front sight with a platinum bead and a folding ivory night sight.

A good friend picked up a nice Jeffery not long ago that came with a brass bead, which was probably a modern replacement. He had trouble with it. At my suggestion, he had J. J. make a new front sight with platinum bead. He says it makes an amazing difference.


Al:

I didn't say that I focused on the rear sight. One doesn't focus on any rear sight. That doesn't mean that the design of the rear sight is meaningless.


Erik:

Well, yeah, I've got a digital, but I've no idea how to post pictures.


Hollis:

It doesn't sound like a bad idea. The diamond type is one of the few I haven't used, so I can't really comment on it. Just don't make it too big. Yes, by all means get the folding moon bead. I find the combination of a moon bead with platinum center wire in the rear V quite useful in low light, as long as the range isn't too long. I once took a nice bear using that set up that I could not have taken without it.

Is this an A. Hollis or an I. Hollis?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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