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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
The Worlds Best Double Rifle
      #6204 - 28/12/03 08:05 PM

For those who own more than one double rifle, which would you choose as your favourite and for what reasons?

Maybe you have owned more than one double in the past but have sold the others and kept one, your favourite.
Please tell us how you made your decision as to what to keep and what to sell.

Is your favourite double one which you hunt with regularly?

When you're through telling us all about your favourite double, how about letting us know if you've ever owned a "lemon" or problem double which you were glad to get rid of!



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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #6215 - 29/12/03 06:37 AM

This is my favorite rifle. A 369 Purdey, one of only 72 built and one of, maybe, only 25 still existing in the original caliber. I have never taken it hunting but would in the right circumstances.





A little story now my children and a hidden lesson to be learned.

Once upon a time in the Great, Green and Wet land of the Pacific Northwest lived me, and my friend Ray. Ray had a wife (I think this was 2 or 3 ago) who was Italian and who's Grandparents had come over on the 'Boat' from the 'Old Country'.

One day Ray and I stopped by the Grandfather's home for some long forgotten reason and ended up being shown his wine cellar and his wine making equipment. (Pay attention here Nitro)

Tony made his own wine. He bought the grapes, he would have grown them but even Red Grapes have moss growing on them here. He crushed them himself, not a pretty picture until he explained that he did not stomp them with his bare feet. He did everything necessary to make the Best Red Italian Vino in the Whole County. (his words)

Me: Tony, this is all pretty neat, is it really as good as you say? (trying to get a glass )

Tony: You betcha, I makea da besta wine there is.

Ray: What do you do if the wine isn't as good as you would like? (also trying to get a glass )

Tony: Ia nevera keepa bada wine. Ia poor ita down da drain asa soon asa I find it.

Me: When was the last time you had a bad batch?

Tony: I'vea never hada bada batcha.

The same thing applies to Double Rifles.





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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holland465
.275 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
Loc: California
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #6217 - 29/12/03 08:36 AM

Over the past 10 years I have owned several English double rifles in the large nitro express calibers. I had a real nice Rigby boxlock 470 with 28" barrels. This gun was brought to me from England and was in need of repairs. The bores were in perfect condition so I took the rifle. I had the gun completely restored to the tune of $ 5000.00 which included a new stock. This rifle was extremely accurate and perfectly regulated. At 60 yards right and left barrels would shoot one ragged hole. It would do this every time I did my part at the range. I took this gun to Africa and shot a tremendous Cape Buffalo and Zebra. I let Paul Roberts, the previous owner of Rigby, talk me out of this gun. I still miss it to this day.

I then purchased a beautiful Westley Richards in 476 Nitro that was cased in the original old leather case. The Westley shot almost as well as my old Rigby and was in fantastic condition. I later sold this rifle to Simon Clode of Westley Richards. I needed the money at the time and he made me a very good offer.

I purchased and traded for some different 450/400 doubles but was not really impressed with them. I had one such rifle that would not regulate no matter what I tried to do! I eventually sold the three 450/400's that I had.

I currently have a H&H 500/465 Dominion grade, sidelock, double rifle. This gun has it's original canvas & leather case and all of the old trade labels still attached to the badly worn felt inside the case. This is a beautiful rifle with 26" barrels, extended top tang, trap grip cap, and a leather covered recoil pad. Inside the case a man had stamped his name and address on one of the old trade labels. I called information in his city and found that there were three people with his last name.I called the first name and spoke to an elderly lady who turned out to be the niece of the owner! I explained to her that I had purchased the rifle and had found her uncle's name inside the case. She informed me that the fellow had passed away a few years back just before his 100th birthday! She then related that he bought the rifle in 1949 from someone who lived in England. This rifle was his pride and joy and he used it many times while hunting in Africa. After his death the family sold the rifle.I purchased this gun 3 years ago from a dealer friend of mine.

I contacted H&H and was told that the rifle was built in 1923.

The Holland is a very nice rifle to say the least but after all is said and done, I would rather have the Rigby or Westley Richards mentioned above. This is just my opinion. I really don't think that H&H's are any better than any other English made guns of that period. They did of course advertise quite a bit and they won some shooting contests, but that is not enough to make them heads and shoulders above the rest!

David


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #6226 - 29/12/03 05:02 PM

My first was .450/.400 3 1/4" NE boxlock by Watson Brothers. It had 28" barrels, which I didn't really mind, weighed 11 lbs. and had stock dimensions that were reasonably close to what I need. It had the same bolstered action as Mickey's A. Henry .450/.400. It also had an unusual retrofitted articulated front trigger which was needed as there was too little space between the triggers to avoid smacking the front trigger when the left barrel was fired. Although it fit me reasonably well and was on the heavy side for a .400, for some reason it whacked my cheekbone mercilessly and quickly gave me a headache. It shot well, but I never loved it. I've handled a number of other Watson rifles since then and have come to realize that this rifle was not representative of the work of this fine, reliable gunmaker.

A couple months after I acquired the Watson, another rifle arrived on approval from a dealer I spoke to while searching for the Watson and had forgotten about. I already had the Watson but, you wouldn't send it back without opening the box would you? I knew I wasn't going to send it back five seconds after I opened the lid. It was a .450/.400 3" NE boxlock by A. Hollis & Son, 26" barrels, nice scroll, fantastic wood, leather pad, perfect dimensions, 10 lbs and in very nearly new original condition. I flogged the Watson. I've had the Hollis for a long time now and, although I love doubles too much to own just one, it is the last heavy double I'll ever own. It fills my need for a big double perfectly.

My William Evans .400/.360 NE has filled my need for a smaller double for use on ordinary game quite well and gets a lot of use. I've thought about having the barrels and furniture reblacked and the stock refinished, but I've never been able to do without it for that long. It is very accurate and is effective on game all out of proportion to its paper ballistics. It won't be for sale during my lifetime either.

For some time I've been considering a scoped double. Yeah, a travesty, but I'd like to do Africa just once sans any of that problematic bolt action trash . Something with enough velocity to justify the scope - probably a .350 No. 2.

Some would say that the worlds "best" double rifle would automatically be a sidelock. I understand sidelocks and appreciate them for what they are, but much prefer the simple understated elegance of a best boxlock.
----------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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holland465
.275 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
Loc: California
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6227 - 29/12/03 06:26 PM

I agree with you regarding the boxlock! Even though the sidelocks are supposed to be " fine guns ", I have a real affinity for the Westley Richards that I sold. It had the Westley sliding top lever which was really a beautiful piece of workmanship. I kick myself in the ass on a regular basis for ever selling it!

Don't be afraid to take your double to Africa without a scope. I shot my Zebra at 130 paces, and hit him right in the neck. The trackers stepped of the distance twice and it was 130 paces. I also shot a Kudu with the 470 as well. My eyes are not the greatest but I did fine with the Rigby and the express sights.


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: holland465]
      #6262 - 30/12/03 11:07 AM

Holland 465:

I've always had a soft spot for Westley's and regret that I've never owned one. They certainly had the formula right. A good friend of mine had a Westley One Trigger Droplock 12 bore Explora with an extra set of conventional 12 gauge barrels. He also had a "Gold Name" boxlock ejector in .318 WR that had had the barrels shot out. Paul Roberts rebored, rechambered and reproofed to 9.3X62mm. Gorgeous guns both. Despite a complete lack of engraving, the 9.3 exuded elegance - the proportions were just so perfect.

Was your .476 a boxlock or droplock? Seems like the ones I've seen tended to be droplocks.

Nothing wrong with your Holland though. Great caliber, and the Dominion backlocks are reputed to be rugged. With the Baker extended top strap (I presume all Dominion rifles have it) you shouldn't have any stock problems. I'll bet it handles nice.

BTW, I noticed over on the Reloading board that you had reloaded some of the old Berdan primed Kynoch cases. I thought I was the only one that had done that! I don't know who makes it, but the new Kynoch brass is good stuff.
--------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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holland465
.275 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
Loc: California
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6280 - 30/12/03 06:05 PM

My Westley was a boxlock. The Holland is nice but I really don't think that they are that great. I am of the opinion that Holland and Holland are " Legends in their own minds "! The French are trying hard to sell H&H and it will be interesting to see if any takers step up to make the purchase.

The Southgate locks that are used by H&H in both the Dominion and Royal grades should be " tuned up " once a year. It is nothing that is too terribly expensive to have done and it keeps everything nice and crisp.

I enjoy loading the old Kynoch brass and the Berdan primers are no trouble at all.

The new brass is made by Wolfgang Romey I have been told. It is very good stuff.

Are you going to the SCI convention in Reno?


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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 4seventy]
      #6320 - 31/12/03 09:15 PM

As with all double rifles, the "Best" double rifle should be the one you own!

I have an A. Hollis & Son 450/400 3 inch. Circa 1907-10 It was made 54 guns before 400Nitro's Hollis!

For my kind of hunting it is small enough to shoot alot and big enough to handle whatever you might stumble across or whatever trys to stumble across you!



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: holland465]
      #6345 - 01/01/04 12:49 PM

Holland 465;

Considering the prices of their current stuff, Holland's certainly has a high opinion of themselves!

Back when Bell sold to PMC/Eldorado, old Bell brass in .450/.400 dried up pretty fast. I scrounged as much as I could, but couldn't find enough to be comfortable. Only A-Square was readily available for a while and that stuff was the worst brass I've ever used. I had a pretty good supply of once-fired Kynoch on hand so I used that for a while. How do you de-cap it? I use a hand punch turned down to fit the the flash holes. Only takes a second or so to fish for it. Not really much more aggravation to load than boxer.

I wondered if the new Kynoch might be from Romey, but didn't really think so. I have some .400/.360 on hand from Romey that is thin and soft. The new Kynoch I have is as heavy as the new Bell (Mast Tech) which is heavier than the old Bell. Maybe Romey is doing something different now.

Unfortunately no, I can't get away for Reno. I ususally go to the Dallas Safari Club Show, but have a hunt on for that weekend. I'm sure I'll go to Houston SC Show though.
-----------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: mickey]
      #6354 - 01/01/04 02:00 PM

Mick

What weight is your .369 Purdey?

Sure looks like a handy rifle.

Besta Italiano Vino is like women. Young, crisp and fresh, or matured deep and long on the palate.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #6355 - 01/01/04 02:13 PM

Nitro

9.5 lbs. It is handy and points like a dream. Unfortunately it is worth a whole bunch of money and is in 'as new' condition. I'm getting ready to build a house in Central BC so I will probably sell it to pay for the new digs.

Just a question but over here on New Years Day there are about a half dozen football games, a tradition. Anything similiar over there?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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holland465
.275 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
Loc: California
Re: The Worlds Best Double Rifle [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #6366 - 01/01/04 08:58 PM

I had a hand punch made with two little pins that go into the flash holes of the case. Just a little tap and the old primer pops out. I will ask David Little where the brass comes from. David owns Kynamco and will be at the convention.

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