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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Factory 7X65R ammo velocities?
      #62039 - 03/09/06 02:25 PM

Was wondering if any of you folks have clocked 7X65R factory ammo? I'm working on loads for a Simson drilling ( 12X12/7X65R ), but the only load data I've found ( Hornady ) was developed in a Mauser bolt action. My starting loads are pushing 140, 160, and 175gr Nosler's at 2590, 2400, and 2260fps respectively. All are printing 3-shot groups of about 2-1/2" at 100yds. It's a fantastic gun, and could probably benefit from scope mounts and glass.

Jeff

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André
.333 member


Reged: 28/06/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Brussels (Belgium)
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62044 - 03/09/06 08:11 PM

Ballistics are the same as those of the 7x64, which is the rimless twin. My 7x64 petload of 160 GK / N 160 / 56.0 (CCI 250 pr.) clocks at 2815 ft" (NB.: 1.3 gn below max but averages .75 MOA out of my Sauer 202). RWS 7x65R factory tables list :
123 x 3051 ft"
154 x 2838
162 x 2854
173 x 2723
177 x 2690

--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: André]
      #62051 - 04/09/06 01:41 AM

Andre,

Thanks for the data. I was under the impression that the relationship between the 7X65R and 7X64, was akin to the .375 Flanged and the 375 H&H. That being the rimmed versions generally operate at lower chamber pressures, in deference to the fact that they are generally used in doubles, drillings, combinations, etc...

Jeff

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62056 - 04/09/06 05:16 AM

Jeff,

Solve your problem...sell me the drilling...

L2S

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: luv2safari]
      #62078 - 04/09/06 01:52 PM

L2S,

Nice try Though I probably will thin the herd in the gun safe as a result of aquiring this gun. Drilling fever is a terrible disease. A small gauge over a ,22 centerfire would be nice to add some day.

I can't wait to hunt with this baby. Back to the range for more fun tomorrow!

Jeff

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62084 - 04/09/06 04:00 PM

What the heck...I ask a lot; I get laid a lot; and, I get slapped a lot...

Post a couple photos.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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André
.333 member


Reged: 28/06/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Brussels (Belgium)
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62087 - 04/09/06 05:58 PM

That's correct, both the 7x64 and 7x65R are loaded to comparable levels by factories. However and for the reason you put forth, the 7x64 can be handloaded to higher pressures and rival the 7RM. The same might be said for the 9,3x74R and 9,3x62.

--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: André]
      #62122 - 05/09/06 03:38 AM

L2S,

When I get around to photographing the gun, I'll have to email them to one of you guys who does the photobucket type thing, and doesn't mind posting them for me?

Andre',

I finally found an English version of the RWS factory specs. I was really surprised at how close to the 7X64, that the 7X65R is loaded. In most cases it's only about 100fps slower. So far, I've worked up to 2375fps with 175gr Woodleigh. While this weight bullet is pushed as fast as 2700fps, I plan to be a little conservative, and stop in the 2500-2600 range. That will be plenty to kill anything I point it at. This morning it put two seperate 3-shot groups into a 2" circle at 100yds. Light conditions were absolutely perfect for iron sights.

Jeff
RWS Factory Specs

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: luv2safari]
      #62133 - 05/09/06 12:58 PM

luv to

I saw an O?U 12Ga and 7x65R last week. It is from Suhl, a sidelock and nicely engraved. He paid CAN$1100 for it a month ago.

I offered him an extra $100 profit but he refused. Selfish Bastard that he is .

Oh did I mention it has claw mounts and a 4x Zeiss scope?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62158 - 06/09/06 06:13 AM

Akjeff,
Frank Barnes cartridges of the world lists:
140 grain @ 53 grains of 4350 = 3000 ft/sec
160 grain @ 50 grains of 4350 = 2750
175 grain @ 49 grains of 4350 = 2680

I don't handload at all so my experience has been limited to factory loads. Norma, S&B and RWS.
They shot ok in my double.
Superior loaded up 175 grain hornady's in a mixed load box and we found one that shoot's like a bolt action. I have no idea what it is or what's the velosity. But the 175 grain bullet shot best in my gun.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: foxfire]
      #62166 - 06/09/06 11:04 AM

Foxfire,

Thanks for chiming in! I saw that in COTW as well. My 10th Edition shows data straight out of the Hornady manual, as well as factory data from Patronen, Norma, and RWS. What kind of double are you shooting?

Was at the range today, and am at the following stage at present:

All loads are with RWS brass, F215M primers, and 175gr bullets at a COAL of 3.350" ( Woodleighs, Nosler Partitions, and Hornady Interlokts all give virtually identical velocity, accuracy, and regulation. ) Barrel length is 25-3/4".

53gr H4831sc for 2560 fps.

55gr Ramshot Magnum for 2420 fps.

Everything I feed this gun seems to give 2" to 2-1/2" groups at 100 yards. This with a pretty crappy sight picture with the small silver bead. It should really hum with a scope, which I plan to do this winter, after hunting season. Plan to hunt with Woodleighs, and use good old cheap Hornadys for practice ammo.

To my great relief, I just got word from AK Dept of Fish and Game ( who then consulted with USF&W to be sure ) that it's OK to hunt waterfowl with a drilling, so long as I don't attempt to use the rifle, or possess rifle ammo, while in the act of fowling.

Jeff

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62171 - 06/09/06 01:23 PM

akjeff,
I really like the caliber. I hunted with it last year. I shot a fallow deer at about 140 yards one shot kill and a whitetail deer. On the whitetail I didn't do a great job but the bullet took him down with a follow up shot rather easily.
Here's a link to Steve's reloading pages if you don't already haave them.
My double is a Krieghoff, I really like it and am impressed with it's function and reliability.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: foxfire]
      #62173 - 06/09/06 02:33 PM

Thanks for the link. The Krieghoff sounds nice. O/U or SxS?

I hope to test this gun on Sitka blacktails in a couple of months.

Jeff

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trmungle
.224 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Juneau Alaska
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62183 - 07/09/06 02:34 AM

Hi Jeff, Where in Alaska are you? I am in Juneau. Tom

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: trmungle]
      #62219 - 07/09/06 12:40 PM

Hey Tom. Eagle River here.

Jeff

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62262 - 08/09/06 10:19 PM

akjeff,
I checked the S&B web site. They list their factory ammo with a muzzle velosity @ 2608Ft/sec using a 173 grain bullet.
I've shot this load in my double and it shoots faily well, not great but ok. I've never had a problem with it and it's sells for 5 boxes @ $75.00.
My double is a SxS.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: foxfire]
      #62297 - 09/09/06 02:05 PM

Thanks for the info. Getting ammo like S&B, Norma, RWS, etc. is pretty spotty in the shops up here, and the additional hazmat fee to have loaded ammo sent up from outside is pretty steep. We pretty much have to handload, unless you just happen to stumble on to such things.

Jeff

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: foxfire]
      #62298 - 09/09/06 02:11 PM

foxy...

The S&B rimmed ammo seems to approximate the older traditional European loadings and regulates well in DRs and combo guns, accordingly. Their 8X57JR shoots like my pre-war combo guns were regulated for their ammo.

I'll try some S&B 173gr in the new drilling in 7X57R I have on the way. I'll bet it shoots very close...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: mickey]
      #62299 - 09/09/06 02:20 PM

Mick,

People like that should be tied in a sack full of rocks and thrown into the river!!

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: akjeff]
      #62388 - 11/09/06 11:59 PM

akjeff,
How much does it cost to ship ammo to Ak? The S&B ammo is so cheap I would think with shipping it would probably be around what any other ammo sells for. I realize handloading is a good thing but sometimes it pays to have or at least try some factory ammo for a hard to find caliber.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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akjeff
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 121
Re: Factory 7X65R ammo velocities? [Re: foxfire]
      #62408 - 12/09/06 02:46 PM

foxfire,

If I recall correctly, the very minimum hazmat add on was $25. This is above and beyond the freight charge. Perhaps some other Alaskans on this board may have some more recent info. I looked into it several years ago, and deceided It wasn't worth paying the extra charge, unless you were buying in bulk, and I wasn't interested in shooting high volumes of factory ammo. I much prefer to roll my own. I just like to try various factory loadings to use as benchmarks.

Jeff

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