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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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SAFARIKID
.275 member


Reged: 08/09/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Savannah,Ga. USA
4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KABOOM!
      #61712 - 26/08/06 10:22 AM

Well,after a year,I got them both and got to shoot them today.!18 rounds later,I got a Headache,but it was worth it!First,the Lil 600OK...50 yds offhand with brake on,not terrible,but you know it went off.Sights right on and after 4 rounds of breakin ME in,I got brave and took the break off..OUCH!What a difference!4 rounds later and it went back on(for now)Next 4 rounds,Killed me a big tree,went through a 18" like nothing with SP's...Then a 5/8 hanging steel plate at 25 yds,and wow,right Through it,with Soft Points! Sheer Power Boys!!..took a break after that 12 rounds and Then,Time for King Kong to come out and play!26 pounds of Iron!22" barrels and still a hard time for my 6',235 pd frame to hold it up steady!KaBOOM!I survived!Not so bad,just raised my left leg off the ground,kinda fun!After the 4th round on paper,saw another Tree(a dangerous one)so I stalked it and took it out like Paul Bunyan!Blew a hole out the other side!Then the Steel plate challenge...1 Inch Diameter-2000 gr Jacket Soft Point(.65thick) "GONGED" the hanging plate like a Sledge Hammer!It was hanging on a cable and jumped around like a earthquake!No,it did not go through it,BUT,the damage was Severe.It pushed out a depression 4 inchs in diamater and stretched that steel a good 1 1/2 back!BRUTE Force!I cant imagine a solid shoulder shot on a Buff,Hippo or Mastadon! Pics coming soon...Time for a Aleve!



--------------------
Lots of BIG Bores!

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: SAFARIKID]
      #61713 - 26/08/06 10:46 AM

Hey Tom,

You will have to change your signature now that you finally have that monster. Thanks for the pictures you sent me! Have FUN !

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KABOOM! [Re: SAFARIKID]
      #61757 - 27/08/06 05:26 AM

Hi Tom

I hope you got tags for those trees, can't do with poachers !

What bullets you using in the .600 O.K, I am guessing at Woodleighs but may well be wrong?

Glad Mr. Owens came in on time, look forward to seeing some pics of the 4 bore and those 2000 grain missiles.

Good shooting, enjoy your acquisitions

Jonathan

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KABOOM! [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #61760 - 27/08/06 07:41 AM

Saw your post over on AR, Glad to hear you finally got that cannon! I'm afraid my old 70 yr old patched up bones wouldn't stand that thing, and it might hurt the Buffalo even more!

I can't wait for the picture of you in action with that double rifle! I don't think Alieve will do it, you need morphine!

Good shooting

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #61769 - 27/08/06 10:45 AM

Pics from AR;

















--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: bulldog563]
      #61772 - 27/08/06 01:36 PM

WOW!!!

Suddenly the .600 OK has become a light rifle!

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: SAFARIKID]
      #61777 - 27/08/06 09:20 PM

Holy Crap!

Erik

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: EricD]
      #61783 - 28/08/06 12:17 AM

Makes you wonder about what Baker's 2 Bore (AKA: Baby) was like.

Would love to see some video of you shooting it.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: bulldog563]
      #61849 - 29/08/06 05:21 AM

Josh

There is much speculation as to the actual bore size of sir samuel Baker's holland single barrel 2 bore "jenna El Mootfah" (child of a cannon).


The rifle was probably one of a pair built for him by Harris Holland in 1861-62. One of which now resides in the Royal Geographical Society in London.

Measurements taken from it reveal a bore size of round about 1 inch, in essence not a 2 BORE.

The custodians of the Museum confirm a 1 inch bore, the barrel itself having 3 grooves each5/16" wide to mate up with the simjilar grooves on the steel pointed lead bullet it utulised.
The bullet diameter was .998" and weighed 5.75 ounces (2438 grains) It is believed, although unconfirmed, that the exploding shell was a variant of the steel pointed bullet, but contained upto 1/2 an ounce of fine grained priming powder.

The main propellant charge was said to have been 12 drams of black powder.

Being a single barrel the weight was a modest 17 lbs, far less than that of a double rifle using the same charge and bullet weight, this would in all probability account for the severe recoil described by Baker.

To have been a 2 bore a bullet weight in theory of 3500 grains would have been in order, a number of authorities have cast doubt as to the existence of a full 2 bore due to the lack of any surviving example.

Baker did refer in his book "Ismailia" to having had 2 muzzle loading Holland half -pounders that carried an iron lead-coated explosive shell, one of these he named his "Baby". It is possible that he used 3,500 grain bullets in a 4 bore ahead of a large propellant charge of black powder, again this would have generated severe recoil in suck a light!! rifle, he also avers to having firred such a charge only a few occassions as the recoil was to fierece even for him.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #61857 - 29/08/06 09:30 AM

Excellent info. Thanks for that.

How did the exploding shells detonate? Was there a fuse of some sort?

Would love to hear more about Baker's guns.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3700
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: bulldog563]
      #61880 - 29/08/06 07:36 PM

Anyone interested in baby photos?



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: bulldog563]
      #61881 - 29/08/06 08:02 PM

Hi Josh

I am guessing here but imagine that some form of primer was insterted into the meplat and which ignited on impact, I would love to see such an example myself. I have seen modern examples of Remington law enforcement ammunition in 9mm that had a lacquer sealed primer fitted to the meplat.

A number of years back, an English entrepaneur and gunmaker named Giles Whittome in London created a sreies of falling block actioned rifles based loosely on the Farquason falling block action, these calibres ranged from .400 bore upto 4 bore, a number being built in his "Mastodon" rifle in .700 N.E.

As a special commisssion for the Royal Armouries Museum, which houses part of the Tower of London collection of arms and armour, Giles commenced work on a "2" Bore falling block rifle that was a copy of an Alex Henry harpoon gun uised for whaling, the gun had a side hammer

As to whether it was ever finished I cannot say, I saw it in the white around 6 years ago but mention of it has gone very quiet since then. I have a single example of a round for the gun, which I will try and photo next to one of his "4" bore rounds. Each cartridge utiulises only a lead bullet, the 4 bore is around an inch in diameter, the 2 bore slightly larger.

As with Baker's "Baby" the Whittome round is not a true " bore" as the bullet weight was only around 2500 grains, of course the designation of a "bore" rifle was how many ROUIND balls of pure lead fit exactly into the bore, not unnaturally if you used a long conical bullet, then you would increase the weight for the calibre, hence a 4 bore could have utilised a 3,500 grain bullet, it would simply have been longer than the more usual 1850 grain lead bullet.

The picture posted of Baby above is interesting in that it shows a section around the breach that had been reinforced with elephant hide, reportedly to mend a split in the stock, the hide would have been wetted and wrapped around the gun and once dried out would shrink and act as a binding to hold things together, imagine trying that on a .600 O.K!!.

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ChrisO
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Houston, PA USA
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #61903 - 30/08/06 07:31 AM

Hi Guys,
Just wanted to post alittle info on Mr. Giles H. Whittome's (Mastodon) .2 Bore.
I've been calling him at least once a year to hear the progress on this rifle, only because I'm very interested in it, can't afford one yet !. I was told by Mr. Whittome the rifle was scheduled to be completed sometime in 2007. I also have bought a dummy .2 bore round off Him back around 2002 / 2003, I can't remember the exact year but its a beast ! The shell is 4 1/2" long, the lead flat nosed bullet weighs 2500 grs. with a diamiter of 1.052". The balistics that He gave me were 1250 f.p.s. at 8,675 ft. lbs at the muzzle for a Taylor K.O. value of 469 ! The head-stamp is simple ( G.H.W. 2 ). I have a polaroid picture of the barreled action and it looks truly massive. I'm sure that when completed, this rifle will be like no other !!!!!
I hope you all find this as fascinating as I do !
Take Care,
Chris Openbrier.

Edited by ChrisO (30/08/06 08:09 AM)

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JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: 4 BORE DOUBLE & 600OK SHOT TODAY! WOW,OUCH,KAB [Re: ChrisO]
      #61924 - 30/08/06 07:56 PM

Chris

Thanks for the low down on the Whittome 2 Bore, I did wonder what hadbecome of both Giles and the rifle, word of him has gone very quiet here.

I have a similar round to that you mention and although it is designated 2 bore, historically some makes of 4 bore shared the same diameter.

If you could ever post the picture of the 2 bore in the white I feel certain it would attract quite some interest, there are plenty of guys on this forum who love ultra large bores and who actually use them for hunting

Jonathan

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