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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Fixed 4x scope???
      #60994 - 10/08/06 04:10 AM

Does anyone use a fixed power scope anymore? I am deciding between a 3-9x40 or 4x32 Zeiss Conquest to top off a Ruger No. 1 RSI 7x57. The 4x is smaller and lighter, more in line with the No. 1, and most people just set their scope on 3x or 4x it seems and leave it there. I'm only comfortable shooting out to 250yds or so, so I won't be cranking that scope up to 9x anytime soon. I guess I'm talking mysefl into the 4x Funny thing is, the fixed 4 is more expensive than the 3-9!!! I considered the 1.5-5 Leo VX-III but I do need a little better twilight performance for deer hunting in PA.

My only question is, about at what distance will 4x become TOO MUCH magnification? We get some awfully close shots at whitetails here in Pennsylvania.

Best regards,

Benny

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banzaibird
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #60995 - 10/08/06 04:16 AM

As a fellow PA hunter. Might I recommend a 2x7 or even 1.5-5 as great choices for the rifle, caliber and conditions.

Bill

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: banzaibird]
      #60996 - 10/08/06 05:14 AM

It''s been a while since I hunted the brush and hills of Southern Oregon. But I used both 3-9 and 4x Leupolds for those 20 to 30 into the brush shots. Kept the variable on 4x most of the time. The 9x was handy for the occaisional cross clearcut- canyon shot.

Back in the late 80's my shop made a big dealer buy of Ziess rifle scopes and binoculars. It was a particualarly wet fall and we had 100% return on every Ziess scope and binocular for fogging and leaking. Zeiss was not going to stand behind their product and only did after the trade association brought pressure to bear.

We did not have a scope or binocular line that didn't suffer some with fogging and leaking in the wet Northen California Southern Oregon weather. The least affected were the Leupold and the Tasco World Class scopes. Both stood behind their scopes.








--------------------
DD, Ret.

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JoeR
.224 member


Reged: 19/01/04
Posts: 41
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: DoubleD]
      #60997 - 10/08/06 07:12 AM

Benny, I had a (German) Zeiss lock up and freeze its erector in the heat of the Kalahari once making the scope a fixed power. Luckily, it was on 5X or it could have been a big deal. That rifle (300H&H) now wears a fixed 4X and it is just fine. Depending on what you want to use the rifle for, but if it is for Africa or the like, fixed would get my vote.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #60998 - 10/08/06 07:58 AM


Benny,

I have used all the scopes you listed on DG rifles
and if you even THINK that you may have too much
magnification, then either get a Leupold 1 - 4
or some other 1 - 5 type scope.

As too the comments by the others on Zeiss etc, I get
sick to see companies that don't back up the productS
they sell.

I like Leupold's warranty - change over or fix it for life
and even if you caused the problem, they sometimes
fix it anyway without charge.

Just my HO.


500 Nitro

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61006 - 10/08/06 02:41 PM

benny...

Fixed 4s on:
2 drillings
1 cape gun
Valmet 12/9,3X74R BBF
35 Whalen 700 Classic
9,3X62 Husqvarna 649
30-06 Husqvarna

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61014 - 11/08/06 04:16 AM

Thanks for the comments guys. I am still thinking the 1.5-5 x 20 VX-III might be a good option for me, but I can't find any spec's on it's twilight performance factor. The 4x Zeiss has a very good TP for it's size, and that is important for hunting here in PA where most of the action is at dusk and dawn.

I imagine that there is some ammount of compromise in any scope design. With the variable power 1.5-5 is there a "sweet spot" that will give the best clarity / light transmission? Is the difference enough to notice at other settings? When up at max power (which according to the specs is really only 4.5x???) will the variable be as clear as the fixed model, all else being equal?

Sorry if my questions are basic. I appreciate the help.

Benny

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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61020 - 11/08/06 06:38 AM

Uh-Oh, just realized Leo has a 1.75-6x32 VX-III. Don't know how I overlooked that. Looks like I'll have to check that against the 1.5-5.

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MopaneMike
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/06
Posts: 147
Loc: So Cal USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61096 - 13/08/06 03:10 AM

Two thumbs up on the Leo 1 3/4-6 Thats what I use on my 375 H&H and couldn't be happier.. The twilight light gathering is incredible, btw I removed the 1 1/2-5 due to the much better light gathering of the 1 3/4-6.. Don't discount the Leo 2-7 either, very compact and light (followed very closely by the 1 3/4-6) it gathers light it seems as well as any of the VXlll do..! my wife's little Mannlicher Schonauer 7X57 carbine carries the 2-7, we were useing that at very late dusk to spot waterbuck bulls as it was too dark to see their horns with our naked eye's..

--------------------
MopaneMike


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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #61098 - 13/08/06 05:10 AM

Had a chance to look through some scopes yesterday. Also, got an informative e-mail from Leupold concerning the 1.5-5 VX-III. The gentlemen who responded to my questions uses these on two of his rifles and they perform very well in low light for him. He mentioned that the small 20mm objective is all that is necessary at such a low magnification.

Anyway, I got to look through the VX-III 2.8-8x36 which is about the same size as the 1.75-6, and I was impressed. Has a longer eye relief than the 1.75-6 also. Just need to find the 1.5-5 to try out now.

Does anyone have experience with the German #4 reticle, which is available on the 1.5-5? Wondering how you like it, or if it is only good at closer ranges?

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MopaneMike
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/06
Posts: 147
Loc: So Cal USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61101 - 13/08/06 06:33 AM

Well Partner.. I'm back.. Turns out I have two 2.5-8's one on my Sako 338 WM and the other on my Winchester FWT in 284 Win. Love them can't say enough good about them. light gathering is also spectacular.. And as great minds think alike, I have the German #4 from Leo just instaled in their custom shop into my 2-7 on the 9.3X62 CZ 550 carbine.. I will admit I am disapointed in this reticle, it's nothing more than their standard duplex with a thin post replacing the upper verticle post. I tried this because I had Premier reticle instal a tapered post with a thin horizontal cross hair.. This started out as a project for my wife's not so great eyesight on her M/S 7X57. But it was amazing how versital and quick this post is for fast line up. I had to have one for myself. But alas, Premier no longer touches Leupold.. So, I settled for the Leo #4 and disapointment..

--------------------
MopaneMike


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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #61267 - 16/08/06 07:08 PM

I quite like the Schmidt&Bender steel tubed 4# and the S&B 1.4-6X42. Both with the no 4 reticule.

A friend with my 9.3Mauser with a S&B 4X


ozhunter

Edited by ozhunter (20/08/07 11:14 AM)

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gmsemel
.224 member


Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 29
Loc: East Haddam, CT
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: ozhunter]
      #61555 - 22/08/06 12:08 PM

Well I hunt a lot in the woods, and lets me tell you, its not going to be a problem. I had an old 4x Ziess on a 6.5 x 55 since the early 1980's. No problems what so ever. My closest shot was 10 yards, my farthest one just about 400, I had better eyes then. A fixed 4x Leupold will serve you well.

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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #61613 - 24/08/06 12:57 AM

well, i got a chance to look through just about all the scopes i was interested in and i'm going with the leu 1.5-5x20. right size, right magnification range and light weight. just seems to work with the rifle better than any other configuration. zeiss scopes were nice but much too heavy, and at low magnification the 1.5-5 is still transmitting plenty of light at dusk. thanks for all the suggestions!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #65892 - 15/11/06 03:49 AM

4X is the power of choice. I have variables that only get used in higher magnification when testing loads. When hunting, they are set at 4X. I only have higher powers for varmints or for testing purposes. 4X is all tha'ts necessary for shooting large game at good hunting ranges.
: My .375 and .458 both carry old 2X Leuopolds. To 300yards (my aboslute max range) even a lowly 2X is plenty of power.
: For even closer shots, 2X will handle them quite well, but most people today, used to higher magnificaiton, find them limited. They aren't. For slightly more versatility, a 1.5-4X(or 5x) would be absoltuely perfect.
: Just be sure to check zeros at 25 yards with all power settings. We've sent back 2 of those low powered variables due to changing poi's with different settings. One Leuy and 1 Redfield were out 5" in impact at 25 yards from 1.5X to 4X.
: I have tried a Bushnel m3200Elite 2-7X which works very well for my 7x57 & the .375/06IMP. 7X is fine for load testing, and 2X to 4X works well for all other shooting. Nice thing about that scope is easy power adjustment - not at all stiff like some other scopes. The 3200 is one of the only scopes out there tested for recoil resistance with a .375H&H. Most scopes just say they are. These are proven.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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vapodog
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: DarylS]
      #66161 - 02/12/06 06:41 AM

I was looking at a fixed 4X and it seems a 3-9X was about the same cost and weight!

I gave up on them and have resigned myself to the variable power scopes and I leave mine almost exclusively on 6X whether woods or prairie hunting.

--------------------

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mart
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 107
Loc: Alaska
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: vapodog]
      #67758 - 22/12/06 03:31 PM

I don't own a varible. Got rid of the last of them two years ago. I have all fixed powers from 1.5x up through 12x on various rifles. My favorite----the Leupold 3x closely followed by the 4x.

Mart

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #67827 - 23/12/06 03:39 AM

Benny
There is nothing wrong with a fixed 4X. I shot a javilena at 412 yards with a 308 and a fixed 4X, the day before my buddy shot one at 328 yards with the same rifle, both shots lazered with a range finder.

One of the guns I have hunted the most with is my 9,3 Chapuis. In 3 trips to Africa and for several years here in the states I have used it with a 1.5-6x scope. I have taken most of my shots with it set on @3.5 to 5X. One or two were taken at 1.5x and several at 6x.

I do like a variable because you can set it on low power in case you jump up something, or something is runnin at you, ie DG. I also like to be able to power up when making a precision shot, or when shooting "herd" animals like turkey, pigs, deer elk etc. When the animals are milling about it is easier to fine the one you want to shoot with a little more magnification, even if they are only 30 [thirty]yards away.

While a 4x will do fine for a light weight 7x57 I would fine a small 3x9 with a 1" tube. I have a Ziess 3x9 on my little Blaser K 95 Stutzen in 308. Works perfect and is ot too big, not much longer than a normal 4x.

I think Kahles still makes a real small 2-7x that would be a good choice as well.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: DoubleD]
      #68990 - 07/01/07 06:53 AM

DD- we've been plagued with fogging Zeiss scopes too. Only the Leupolds (and my 3200 Elites) seem to be free of this problem.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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benny
.224 member


Reged: 11/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: DarylS]
      #69130 - 09/01/07 04:20 AM

thanks for the reply's gentlemen. i picked up the 1.5-5 vx-III and have used it on a PA white tail so far this year. very happy with the scope and very happy i stayed away from higher magnification. thinking i might try a fixed 2.5 leo if i end up with the new 450/400 ruger no 1.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #79024 - 20/05/07 11:25 AM

I have a 4x M8 on my treasured .375 of 25 years and have shot much game wity it down to small coyote size and up to elk, zebra and blaau wildebeest. Regular plex reticule. No problems there. My son has an FN .270 Grandad gave him and along with it came an OLD 4x regular crosshair Leupold that had a shaky lense. All repaired for free and the kid went on to kill a nice 5x5 buck with it, and a bobcat.

I have several older Burris USA-made scopes with regular plex and German 4A and I like the 4x very much. One is a 1.75-5x and I more or less leave it on 5. The rifle is a 9,3x57 and I've killed elk, deer and ground squirrels with the rifle. A fixed 5 {if such existed...} would be fine, too. But the "9" on my 3x9's does get used, and I have shot several critters that might be grazing peacefully had I been stuck with a lower power scope. The older I get, the more I think high magnification power is best used for the deep woods and brush to thread a bullet thru, whereas 4x or 5x or 6x are plenty fine for my self-imposed 200 yard {more-or-less} range limit.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (05/08/07 12:02 PM)

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Savuti_One_Shot
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Reged: 24/01/07
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Loc: Florida
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: benny]
      #79074 - 21/05/07 04:13 AM

Quote:

thinking i might try a fixed 2.5 leo if i end up with the new 450/400 ruger no 1.



Benny, you read my mind, except I'll be using the Scout version due to eye relief issues with the No 1.

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #79217 - 23/05/07 04:10 AM

I have three fixed 4x, a old style steel Weaver and two Leupolds.

One is a spare and the others are on my .30-06 and 6.5mm.

A 3x or 4x makes a good fixed scope on a medium rifle for medium game.

A 2.5x or a 3x on a big bore.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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GoneShootin
.224 member


Reged: 18/07/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: NitroX]
      #83230 - 29/07/07 04:10 PM

I have a fixed 4x Nikon (not nikko). Some magazine (cant remember which) has rated it as one of the best scopes around for hunting purposes. Its on an 8x68S M98.

Generally any rifle i use with variable power is mostly left on lowest, except for target use, in which it gets the highest. All inbetweens are usually redundant IMO.


On another note, ive been looking for preferably a variable scout scope, but more importantly with 7-8 inches eye relief. This is to go on a martini cadet rifle in 218 bee. Im starting to settle to getting a burris fixed 2.75x, but for varminting, its probably not enough power. Im aware that long eye relief scopes change eye relief dramatically with different powers, so if there is one, i would want it to be able to use all powers with 7-8 inches eye relief. Looking for about a 2-7 powers.

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333_okh
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Reged: 24/12/05
Posts: 87
Loc: Northern California
Re: Fixed 4x scope??? [Re: GoneShootin]
      #84286 - 20/08/07 06:15 AM

The Leupold Custom Shop is currently making a custom 6x for me. I used the 6X36mm as a base just due to the fit it had on my custom 6.5X55 that will mimic a 1920s English Stalking rifle. It will eventually have custom calibrated knobs and it has the German #4 rect. I think the fixed power needs to come back. The ability to learn ones rifle and ranging with a fixed power will increase for accuracy and effectiveness.

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