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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway?
      #6096 - 24/12/03 01:12 PM

I was pointed to this fella and this site and couldn't believe what he is saying. His handle is cjishere2 and, according to himself, is the world's expert on just about anything. I almost registered just to point out to him what an idiot he is but it is the Christmas Season.

So far what I have read is not dangerous but he has these guys sitting on his knee and lapping up all of his BS.

For loads of laughs go here:

http://bushnelloutdoors.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3168


DOUBLE RIFLES

Leo - Since you brought up double rifles, I thought you might like this post. It comes, almost word for word, but in a slightly different format, from what I wrote in one of my ELMER AND JACK posts.

A word about double rifles, Elmer Keith loved 'em and owned several, some of which he kept, in cases, under his bed. Jack O'Connor was less fond of the double rifle and its inherent limitations.

For, by and large, double rifles are fine for short range work but terrible for longer range shooting due to their barrel taper and, as a result, their bullets crossing down range, usually within 100 yards. This is something that cannot be adjusted for with sights, so far as I know, further limiting their use to short range work.

Picture, for example, the left barrel of a double rifle, of necessity, with a larger chamber area, to accommodate the seating of a cartridge, with case, as opposed to that same barrels bullet exit hole where there is no need to accommodate a case. At some point this left to right taper will send a bullet out to a range, usually within 100 yards, where it crosses flight paths with a bullet fired from the right barrel, which is, again, of necessity, tapered just the opposite, right to left. Within a reasonable distance of the X point, where the bullets cross, let's say a paper plate size area, maybe, 9 inches wide, both before and after the X, well, that's about where a double rifle is going to be usefully accurate. Most are built so the X occurs sooner, in range, rather than later since these are typically viewed as short range rifles and not very many gun smiths are, in truth, expert enough to regulate a double rifle so as to change bullet flight path.

More often than not, if buying used, as Elmer, typically, did, you have to find out what load and bullet works best in your double rifle, and this is why most doubles are custom made, so the buyer can specify what load and bullet they wish to fire, and then stick with it by filing the iron sights accordingly. If you change loads and bullets, thereby changing point of impact, you have to refile or replace the iron sights.

Plus, there are no cheap and good double rifles as compared, price wise, with good bolt action rifles.

CJ


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
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Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6098 - 24/12/03 02:13 PM

Mick

You are a Christian and generous man not to join there and flame this fellow.

Have a look at the following photo and see if you can work out how these old makers made these damn rifles so

In reply to:

with a larger chamber area, to accommodate the seating of a cartridge, with case, as opposed to that same barrels bullet exit hole where there is no need to accommodate a case. At some point this left to right taper will send a bullet out to a range






--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: NitroX]
      #6103 - 24/12/03 02:39 PM

Fuck it Mickey i promised i wouldnt join any more forums....now you have got me joining that one,i cant help myself and i suppose i will have to give him this site address in return for his obviously fantastic knowlege hahaha

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
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Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6104 - 24/12/03 02:46 PM

Mickey after reading that thread i have come to the conclusion that old cjishere2 and his mate Leo are soon to be lovers hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
What a crock of shit those two yaffling idiots are on about.

that shere name i wonder if hes related to Shere Khan of Kipling fame.?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6106 - 24/12/03 02:54 PM

Gryphon

Don't you dare. We would have to take up a collection like HA to put a bounty on your head, and his.

I have to admit that I couldn't stand the temptation either and registered and replied to his post. I am so ashamed.

Nitro

I doubt if he would know what he was looking at, and stop pointing that Bloody Gun at me.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6108 - 24/12/03 03:10 PM

Hahahahaha Mickey i saw your post there..sneaking in under their guard hahaha with your innocuous q`s now when are ya gonna give it to `em with both Knowlegable barrels?

I know frig all about Le Double so will leave it all up to you mate on that fine thread lol.

--------------------
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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6114 - 24/12/03 05:37 PM

NitroX, is this your Doppelganger?

In reply to:

By Xnitro on another site.

I was wondering, with the taper in the barrels at the breech and the smaller area at the muzzle causing the barrels to cross-over, is this why so many of the old obsolete double rifles used straight walled cases? So the case would be thinner allowing the cross-over to be further out?

Also is this why the cases would often be rimmed? If they were rimless cases the cartridges would have to be fatter and create more taper? I guess these early gun makers knew what they were about as the rimless design meant the rim could be outside the case width and less taper.

But wouldn't some of these really thin newer ultra magnum rimless cartridges be perfect for a modern custom double? The cartridge is often thinner, less taper and faster velocity could get the cross-over further out?






Would this be why my 9.3x74 R shoots farther than my .577NE, because the case is thinner?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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RLI
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Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6115 - 24/12/03 07:27 PM

????????????

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6118 - 25/12/03 01:40 AM

Hey Mick don't print that rubbish here!

Its logical polution.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: NitroX]
      #6120 - 25/12/03 01:54 AM

OK Mick two can play that game.

In reply to:

Mickey:

CJ

I read your first post and was wondering why the rifle makers don't make the barrels parralel to each other? If the taper makes them cross over than parralel whould make them shoot side by side for a lot farther. Maybe it's because the rifles would be to wide at the barrels?

I saw a Hoenig double rifle at a gunshop in Boise my Dad took me too. The barrels rotated to the right to open instead of down.

Lee

How hard is it to regulate a double rifle or shotgun? I have an old stevens that I want to use for deer but it won't shoot slugs very well. It shoots them into an 8 inch cirlcle at 25 yards. If it isn't too hard I would like to try and make it shoot better.

Thank you
Mickey




So how is old Dad doing? And if you want to improve those slug groups you gotta stand closer to the target !

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: RLI]
      #6121 - 25/12/03 02:19 AM

RLI

Just having some fun. Go to the thread I posted in the beginning and you will understand.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6122 - 25/12/03 04:27 AM

Fuzzy math here, but that guy over on that other board has it all wrong....them double guns with the trapered bbl's laid side by side cross over about 10 inches in front of the barrel and because of the rotational forces of the earth they cross over again at 100 yards, right to left in the northern hemisphere and left to right on the southern. I know because I am a Gunsmith and I had a Double rifle in my shop once about 1987

...yes I have been into the Christmas Cheer, what makes you ask?

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6128 - 25/12/03 08:41 AM

In reply to:

I have to admit that I couldn't stand the temptation either and registered and replied to his post. I am so ashamed. Nitro





I also have to admit I started the process of registering, then backed out when told if I was on AOL, the site was not reccognized!

Man that guys sounds like he wouldn't know a double rifle from a water pipe!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #6131 - 25/12/03 08:47 AM

rotational forces of the earth they cross over again at 100 yards, right to left in the northern hemisphere and left to right on the southern."

Thats amazing its a bit like the water goes down the plug hole in different directions too lol

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6132 - 25/12/03 08:56 AM

HOT OFF THE PRESS HAHAHA
JUST PASTED THIS FOR YOU GUYS FROM MR SHERE HIMSELF


Are you fellows varmint hunters? Big game hunters? African hunters?

Odd how all three of you were drawn to this thread at, virtually, the same time, and with each of you making your very first post here, do you all know each other?

I'm curious for I don't recall a similar occurance since I've been writing here.

Tell us a bit about yourselves, if you don't mind. Aside from Mickey, I'm also curious about your names. That's always a fun topic. How someone comes up with their cyber name.


--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6133 - 25/12/03 09:54 AM

You guys are evil!

This guy made a comment that kind baffles me. Says he hung out around Elmer Keith, mentioned Elmer's doubles kept under the bed, then in a later post says he has never shot a cast bullet.

Anybody who hung out around Elmer Keith eventually shot with him. Elmer shot lots of cast bullets. I talked with Elmer on the phone many times back in the Early to mid 70's as I was working with the 41 Magnum. Elmer sent me cast bullets and a bullet mold. Only ever met him one time at an NRA convention.

I think your "CJ is here also" might be blowing smoke!



--------------------
DD, Ret.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: DoubleD]
      #6139 - 25/12/03 11:07 PM

I feel very dirty and ashamed.

My first foray as an evil troll.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: NitroX]
      #6144 - 26/12/03 06:14 AM

You filthy boy! GO TO YOUR ROOM AT ONCE.!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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coues
.275 member


Reged: 04/03/03
Posts: 65
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: gryphon]
      #6146 - 26/12/03 06:43 AM

Think this guy is William E Tibbe as pointed out on AR.
Merry Christmas.
Coues


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: coues]
      #6152 - 26/12/03 01:33 PM

I don't think this guy is Tibbe. He seems much to lonely and is starving for attention. I think Atkinson and Tibbe are buddies aren't they? Why don't you ask Ray?

I feel bad for the guy as it seems that his only identity is that lousy forum. Look at all of the time he spends posting. I have no idea if he actually knew Kieth or O'Conner or the other names he drops but if he did or does it is amazing. His 'conversation' with Clint Eastwood, a known anti gun advocate, about guns is interesting.

Oh well, we got Nitro to be a Troll for a day.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6167 - 27/12/03 08:12 AM

I agree this isn't Tibbe! Tibbe has 10 times the knowledge of firearms, than cjishere2 does, and tibbe is not too swift!

I went over to Bushnell, and went through every forum there, and this joker is prolific on every subject listed on that site, and I have not read anything he has written that is even in the ball park of correct. That is not what amazed me, so much as the "pied pieper" following he commands! It seems the blind don't mind being led by the blinder!

cjishere2's failier to understand Double rifles, is not supriseing, to me. I have always been amazed at the answers one gets,to questions pertaining to double rifles, by even by some very well known gunsmiths, and people in the USA, who have years of experience with rifles, and shooting. It is a simple fact that double rifles are not generally understood, by many shooters, especially in the USA.

IMO, if you ask 10 people around a hunting camp fire, in the USA, and to some extent, in Africa, as well, the reason for, or the value of a double rifle, you will get 10 different answers. About 2 out of the 10 will not be aware of their existance at all. Another 4 will know of their existance, but cannot give any sound reason for their value, monetarily, or for their usefullness. Another 2 will not be able to tell you how they work, or any maker other than H&H. The last two will be aware of their place as stopping rifles, but still not understand how they work.

I would say none of the 10 would understand anything about how to work up a proper load for them, and cannot tell you what the term "REGULATE means!

This guy, however, is all over the place, with a lot of day dreams, he touts as FACT, and is believed by the masses there! That is believed by everyone except for Micky, and Xnitro!

I think this is about 18, to 20 year old wantabe, and probably form one of the larger cities in the Eastern USA, and has read a lot of Field and Stream, to gain what little he does know, and was lucky enough to find a website full of guys who know less than he does, if that is possible!



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #6184 - 27/12/03 11:22 PM

I know who cjishere2 is.


I went through the site and worked it out....its Col Jeff Cooper!


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6189 - 28/12/03 07:58 AM

Micky I just went to the BO, and cjishere2 says he is begining to smell a rat!............I wounder why?????????


--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #6190 - 28/12/03 10:32 AM

I guess it takes one to know one. I think he must be smelling Nitro or Gryphon though, don't you?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Check this out. How lucky are we here anyway? [Re: mickey]
      #6197 - 28/12/03 03:42 PM

Geez Mick, you've done it now! Ol' CJ is walking the plank! What a scream.
-----------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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