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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Some guys...
      #60901 - 07/08/06 01:46 PM

Some guys prefer a bolt.

Went to the range today with 2 other fellows. One fellow was thinking of getting a double but had not shot one before. We shot:

Hambrusch .500 double
Ryan Breeding .505 GMA actioned bolt gun
Kimber .375 bolt gun
FN Mauser .375
Blaser .375 R93
Blaser .416 R93
VZ24 .470 capstick express rifle
Marcel Thys .470 NE double
Chapuis .470 double

Th Breeding .505 shot great and was quite manageable rapid rapid fire with 600 grain loads. Fit, finish and smoothness of the Breeding was far and away better than any of the other rifles.

One of the fellows was going to buy a double and was fully outfitted to reload for the .470 NE. But after the shoot he drove home and put all his .470 stuff up for sale. He will be buying a blaser .416 instead.

The Thys is nicely finished but the geometry of the stock causes it to feel like someone has elbow-jabbed my cheekbone with each shot. The Hambrusch kicked the least of the doubles.

A guy tat the range had some 3.5 inch thick Lexan. A .375 with Woodleigh solids blew it apart like a hand grenade. Chunks of Lexan went 30 feet into the air and some landed 40 yards downrange from where they started. So much for bullet proof glass.

I had some A-Square .470 capstick factory ammo. The brass was so soft that the rims half ripped off as each case was extracted. So I tossed the brass in the trash can.

The FN Mauser has a rigby-style floorplate and holds 7 rounds. 6 in the magazine plus one in the chamber. 7 rounds. 7 rounds!! Isn't that fantastic?!

The Kimber hangs and maneuvers well and is a nice looking rifle. Much better quality overall than recent production Winchesters.

At 100 yards I put 4 shots touching out of one of the blasers. It seemed too easy.

The 470 capstick kicked least of all due to a straight stock and wide butt to spread out the recoil.

The blasers were very fast on a follow up shot.

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zaitsev
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Trysil, Norway
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500grains]
      #60913 - 07/08/06 07:36 PM

7 rounds of .375, now that sounds like a very good stopper rifle if no other cartridge is available at the time.

How is the .470 Capstick in use?



--------------------
The world hasnt got enough big Bores ,and people who uses them

(mr rigby at AR)

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Some guys... [Re: zaitsev]
      #60921 - 08/08/06 12:24 AM

The 470 capstick is virtually indistinguishable from a 458 lott in practical terms.

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500grains]
      #60960 - 08/08/06 11:15 PM

The fellow who is buying that R93 in .416 would be well advised to see the Proof House records in advance laying down the cash ......

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #60963 - 08/08/06 11:29 PM

What proof house records are you referring to? Is there an internet link?

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #60964 - 08/08/06 11:57 PM

Double_Trouble

Why do you say
well advised to see the Proof House records in advance ?

and
what Proof House Records are you referring to ?

500 Nitro

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #60968 - 09/08/06 02:44 AM

In reply to:

Double_Trouble

Why do you say
well advised to see the Proof House records in advance ?

and
what Proof House Records are you referring to ?

500 Nitro




>>>>>>>>>>>>> SILENCE!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #60977 - 09/08/06 07:46 AM

dugaboy

Give him at least 48 hours to respond.

Can'y judge the man until he has had time
to think of an answer !!!

500 Nitro

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jagermeister
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/06
Posts: 14
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #60978 - 09/08/06 11:04 AM

There were some reports a couple of years ago of Blaser R93 accidents. I couldn't find most of them with a casual search. All I found was this: http://www.deportiro.com.ar/english_articles/al10_english_version.shtml

I'm told that Blaser makes exceptionally strong barrels. That might not be a good thing if next weakest elements are the "fingers" locking the bolt into the barrel/receiver.

Most other failures I've seen (like some Sako 75s with bad steel lots) have the barrel peeled like a banana skin but the bolt is still locked in the receiver. I'd rather have that kind of failure than the bolt lugs separating and coming back.

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Some guys... [Re: jagermeister]
      #60979 - 09/08/06 11:13 AM

I always worried about that type of catastrophic failure with a Blaser.Especially with serious calibers with high pressures and forces at work.

Think I'm gonna continue to pass on any Blaser rifles.

Thanks so much for the info.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: hoppdoc]
      #60980 - 09/08/06 01:02 PM


I don't own a Blaser but do like them and undertsnad your
thoughts.

However I think you / we need to look at
what caused the problem.

The one problem I know about was caused by a person
who severely overloaded the 300 Win Mag.

500 Nitro

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #61009 - 10/08/06 10:02 PM

please excuse my tardiness in responding, Jagermeister has pretty much answered the query though.

the bolt blow back problem with the R93 has caused some ugly injuries.

I own a Blaser of an older vintage and have had no problems with it and its a straight shooter as well, albeit in a calibre much lighter than commonly discussed on this board.

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #61038 - 11/08/06 03:58 PM

What about the Proof House records? How would someone access them?

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: bulldog563]
      #61043 - 11/08/06 04:17 PM


I don' think you can access the proof house records.

I think the stamp on the gun should be good enough.

I think I now see what he was getting at by saying "see the proof house records" - I think he just doesn't like the Blaser
which is fine, everyone has a different opinion which is what makes it interesting.

500 Nitro

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #61058 - 11/08/06 10:02 PM

it isnt that I dont like Blaser rifles ,,,,,,as I posted above, I own one and its a good gun and has taken plenty of game, moose, deer, and bear.

I merely caution anyone buying a R93 in these safari calibres as there have been some serious mis-haps and I would hate to see anyone else injured.

I do believe that the proof records are available upon request from the manufacturer but I could could be mistaken....am in the process of confirming that and I will let you know my findings

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #61059 - 11/08/06 10:48 PM

Double_Trouble

My apologise for my post then.

I understand where you are coming from though.

500 Nitro

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #61069 - 12/08/06 04:57 AM

no worries 500N !
i have looked into the availability of proof house records and it would seem that they are not readily available but what is avaialble is the copy of a reciept for the services of the proof house

in a company the size of blaser they would most likely have one or two reps come out from the proof house and test (depending on the production volumes) hundreds of rifles at a time with fully loaded ammo +30%

the invoice (the pertainent portions {ie your serial number} are obtainable) will have all serial numbers of the guns tested
thus assuring yourself that the gun being purchased has at least been tested.

there are (or were) websites discussing the "problems" encountered by various unfortunate hunters that have had the mis fortunes of failures with R93

have a great weekend all and here's hoping that your travel plans arent to delayed by yet more cowards trying to kill inocent people WTF is with these anal sphincters !

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #61071 - 12/08/06 07:09 AM


Double_Trouble

At least in England the proof stamps on a gun says it has gone
through proof and god help anyone who tries to circumvent it.

Are you saying that you don't think that all guns go through a proof house in Europe ???

I think it would be a long call to say that compnoies bypass
Proof in Europe - especially since the guns may be shipped
to another country where proof laws apply.

500 Nitro

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WildCattle
.275 member


Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Northern California
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #61095 - 13/08/06 02:41 AM

As a matter of fact my first gun was a Chapuis O/U 12 GA (I know, I'm ashamed ) and was not proofed.
This was clearly illegal, and the gun was sent back to Chapuis for proofing. This is an exception, and very rare.
The St-Etienne proof house does provide an individual certificate along with the stamping on the action and barrels.
I would be surprised if the Germans did not do the same.
And by the way, it's hard to believe that the german proof house would not stamp anything on the gun.
Could it be that the Blasers exported to the US are not proofed???
Scary thought...
WC

--------------------
You know you have reached perfection of design not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing left to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: WildCattle]
      #61105 - 13/08/06 08:20 AM


Wild Cattle,

That is a good point you make.

I heard but canot confirm that the English proof house clamped down on the sending of out of proof guns to the US where they could be sold legally whereas they couldn't in the UK.

500 Nitro

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Some guys... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #61152 - 14/08/06 09:27 PM

I know that it is ilegal as hell to sidestep the proof house but , be that as it may, it seems that there is a weakness that isnt being seen in the R93 and that people are getting hurt.
It does give one cause to wonder ........

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Some guys... [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #61155 - 14/08/06 10:54 PM


Double_Trouble

Re "I know that it is ilegal as hell to sidestep the proof house"
I am not sure whether it was illegal as the guns were not "sold"
in the UK but shipped to the US and sold there.

It was more a case in the early part that US buyers did not really understand proof and just wanted "English Guns" and I think various people took advantage of that.

500 Nitro

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