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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
London Sporting Park 450-400
      #60600 - 31/07/06 10:51 AM

On or around 2002 I sold a London Sporting Park, LTD, caliber 450-400-3 1/4. With due regrets this is one of the rifles I have sold and wished I had back! I know there are a few floating around in this caliber, but if anyone might by chance have such a rifle I would love to buy it back. I bought the rifle from George Caswell, Champlin Firearms, good friend, Enid, Okla, which is where I also grew up. George sold the rifle through Champlins for me.
The rifle is built on a long-bar Webley action, chopper lumb barrels, ejectors, and is one of the only 450-400's which I have seen which is proofed for 70 grains of cordite rather than 55 or 60. I took a very nice Buff in Zim in 2001 and planning on going back next year. I know this is a VERY LONG SHOT, just thought I would ask and see.
Thanks in advance.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: detoews]
      #60602 - 31/07/06 11:13 AM

I know of a London Sporting Park .450/.400 3 1/4" that George sold, but it was some years before that. It was also a 60 Cord gun.

Was this a 400 MAX gun, or 300 MAX? 70 Cordite was the normal load for the 300 grain bullet.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #60605 - 31/07/06 11:20 AM

Thanks for the reply. The DR was in fact a 400 Max proof.

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: detoews]
      #60650 - 01/08/06 12:19 PM

I own the 450/400 400 Nitro is talking about. I got it from George a few years before 2002.
I have seen one other London Sporting Park double that was just like mine, except it was in fairly rough shape.

My 400 has taken deer, several wild pigs, 2 caribou, and a black bear.

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: NE450No2]
      #60654 - 01/08/06 05:13 PM

Can you post some pictures?

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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: NE450No2]
      #60700 - 02/08/06 12:42 PM

The London Sporting I had was serial number 13007. If you bought the rifle a few years before 2002 it is not the same rifle as I hunted in Zim in 2001 and did not sell until later. The one I owned was in fact rough on the outside, I had JJ do a total restoration, including color case. The bores were great, sharp rifling and shiny , no pitting, good acuracy. Came from India from what George said, probably used for Tigers.

Thanks anyway.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: detoews]
      #60702 - 02/08/06 02:46 PM

detows
I am sad [and happy] to report, that is the 450/400 London Sporting double I have.
Sad for you as I would NEVER sell it, HAPPY for me as it is a very fine double rifle.
So far I have taken deer and many wild pigs in Texas, black bear in Montana, and 2 very nice Caribou in Alaska. It is a great hunting rifle.
My wife took second place in a DRSS double rifle shoot a few years ago, and another DRSS member took third with it.
In fact I just got it back from JJ where he installed a S&B scope in claw mounts.

My wife [and I] will be using it in Zim this Oct.
Seems like I have had it longer than 2002, but the years run together, however the serial Number does not lie.

What game have you taken with the rifle and what loads did you shoot?

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: NE450No2]
      #60732 - 03/08/06 07:59 AM

By the way it is a 60 gr Cordite gun.

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detoews
.224 member


Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: NE450No2]
      #60745 - 03/08/06 11:17 AM

You do in fact have a great English double rifle! Well, at least now I can end my search. I would have sworn that it was proofed for 70 grains of cord, I guess as the saying goes my memory is great, it just does not last a long time!
As far as loads, JJ is the one who worked up a load for the rifle. I will have to dig back in old data to see what I have, I would think JJ might have a record of what he worked up, would have been in 1999 or around 2000 as I hunted in Zim in 2001. Fairly certain the load he settled on was IMR 4831, with F215 primers, would hate to say the amount of 4831 as you can see my memory on cord was not correct. Of course the bullets were 400 gr. Woodleighs. If you talk to JJ mention my name to him, Dennis Toews. He might have the records based on name more than serial number, don't know for sure though. I know him fairly well and make frequent trips to Enid, as my parents are still living there, as a matter of fact heading there this weekend. The double rifle belonged to Bill Renie originally, who worked for many years at Champlin as one of the "smiths" before passing away at a young age. Bill was a barrel freik so anything which had a great bore on the inside got his attention, did'nt matter what the outside looked like. Before Africa the rifle took quite a few Jack Rabbits,[ great way to practice,] in Zim took a very good Buff, Impala, and Waterbuck. Anyway, glad the rifle found a good home!!

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: detoews]
      #60752 - 03/08/06 02:10 PM

JJ did give me the load of 81 gr of IMR 4831, which is what I use with 400 gr Woodleigh softs and 300 gr Hawk 300 gr with the .025jkt. I will be working up loads with Woodleigh solids with RL 15 and 4831 to see which shoots best.
I have shot this rifle to 300 yards on rocks, the flip up sights are spot on at 200 and 300.

One of the things unique to this double and the one other London Sporting Park Ltd rifle I have seen is the enscription on the barrels.

On the left bbl it says "THE SIGHTS ARE ACCURATE FOR THIS BARREL TO 400 YARDS".

On the right bbl it says, "THIS BARREL IS ACCURATE WITH THE LEFT TO 50 YARDS".

It has a standing leaf marked 50 yards and a folding leafs for 100, 200, 300, & 400 yards.

The inside of the bbls are perfect and look brand new.
I had JJ put a Leather recoil pad on it when I first bouight it.
It has been in several rainstorms in Alaska and Montana and the pad still looks brand new.

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: NE450No2]
      #60761 - 03/08/06 05:27 PM

Thats interesting.... Is that how most British DR's are regulated? Most of the Brit DR's I have seen have flip up sights for 200+ yards. Would they normally sight both bbls for less then 100yds and then use one barrel for the long distance barrrel/sights?

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: London Sporting Park 450-400 [Re: bulldog563]
      #60762 - 03/08/06 06:25 PM

The two LSP doubles I have seen are the only ones I have seen so marked. It is my theory these doubles were nmade for India where Hill and Jungle shooting would be done, thus you had a bbl sighted in for 50,100,200,300, and 400 yards for "Hill" shooting and a double bbl sighted to 50 yards for Jungle shooting of DG.
The 400 was a very popular ctg for India, especially after @ 1905 when the British banned all 458 bore rifles and pistols from India and the Sudan.

It makes perfect sense, as usually the right bbl on a double gets the most use, and the rear trigger is the best one to use when making precision shots, as it feels better in the grip, and there is no chance for a double [shooting both bbls] when using a finer finess hold for a long shot.

London Sporting Park Ltd was a shooting school in Herndon, London. The doubles looked to be made by Webley, the same makers for many Army & Navy doubles.

The LSP Ltd people appear to be pretty savy to me.

I plan to sight the scope in for the left bbl, and use it that way for precision shots at a distance or on smaller game, or even when shooting through a hole in the brush up close.

I woulds rate this LSP and the Army& Navy guns I have seen to be the equal of ANY British double as far as the craftsmanship of the rifle itself is concerned.
Of coures higher grade doubles have prettier wood and finer engraving , but these rifles look to be as well "Built" as ANY other double, regardless of the name on the gun.

I like this LSP double so well that I drove all the way to @ Spokane to look at its twin [well, I did have a bear hunt planned in Montana], and I would have bought it for sure but it was a pretty rough rifle.
I was hoping it would be at least as good as mine as I would love to have a twin to it.

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