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Pleasure is all mine. I certainly had a lot of fun with the double 12 I worked with, and intend to do much the same with the Marlin M1896 I recently aquired. I cannot remember what I ever did with that 12 bore double - must be at a friend's house - maybe Keith's. It is a terrific camp gun for discouraging marauding grizzlies intent on the meat pole. The more information there is out there to promote more guys to get involved in this 'sport' the better.
; The same guy I spoke of, Keith, with the .75 cal Sporting rifle, in conjuction with another friend of his, deveoped round ball loads for their full choked duck guns, using the .684" round balls (my 14 bore English Sporting Rifle). They found they only needed to use a wad column that filled the case along with a cloth-patched ball. Upon my suggestion, they picked a denim cloth about .012" to .015" thick, that they could just shove through the choke, to make sure they waere safe to shoot. They used the normal duck loads for 1-1/4 oz. shot with SR4756 and SR7625 powders. I suspect their velocities ran in the 1,250fps to 1,300fps range, somewhat less than the ones I developed, but pretty close to the velocity of the 'light' African load for the 12 bore ctg. guns. Of course they used the smaller, 466gr. round ball, but that too, of course, was just as effective on the moose that wandered close by their duck blinds. The 'boys' penetration tests consisted of shooing through a 45 gallon (imperial measure) fuel drum. The round ball punched through both sides, whereas a normal Winchester or Remington 1 ounce Foster slug made a dent and lead splash on the impact side. One such shot actually cracked the metal, but only squirted a small amount of lead through. This testing convinced them something bettr was needed for moose. They were right. Their shooting was at 50 yards. Howard, one of the fellows, claimed his first round ball loads printed inside 5" at 50 yards offhand, about the same as his offhand groups from his normal Moose rifle, a triple 4 Marlin. That was as far as his testing went. Makes it easier when someone paves the way, eh?
: Needless to say, he was rather happy with his duck/goose & moose gun.
; I almost picked up a rifled gun for testing when they first came out. The problem as I saw it, was the twist rate used in them, 35" was way to fast a twist for the projectiles I'd come to depend upon - round balls. Had they made one in 100" twist, I'd have been much more inclined to buy one and to develop good loads for it. The 35" twist showed it was too slow for the .50 cal. BRI slugs, the waisted ones. Groups, while appearing fairly good, showed tipping of the slugs. To me, this mean instability after impact. Besides, why shoot a descent bore size with a tiny bullet? While being too slow for the .50 cal slug, they we too fast for round balls with any but squib loads. Not for me - what I was after, was a descent twist rate that would shoot well with round balls, which to me, gave the best killing power at normal game ranges. A 100" twist would have made a properly sighted 12 bore into a 150 to 200 yard big bore rifle, one capable of handling anything on this globe in good fashion, yet also capable of being shot in an 8 or 9 pound rifle. Before I got around to rifling one by hand, a good weight 12 bore, I sort of lost interest in this game & went on to other shooting testing.
: Thanks for re-kindling those thoughts & ideas. You never know what I might come up with. A gun with descent length barrels, 24" to 26" full choked (40 points of choke) resonable weight at the muzzles, the chokes rifled in about a 60", deep grooved twist, might just be the ticket. The more rapid twist than optimum may be necessary to get sufficent spin from the round ball. It's all about experimentation. I wonder if anyone knows what twist was used in rifled choke guns of the 19th century?
: I should also note here that for those of you wishing to try some of these type loads, round balls can be purchased by the 25 count from www.trackofthewolf.com is various sizes. Nominal 12 bore size is .729". I have found that the .648" size fits the base of a 12 bore steel-shot cup with the petals trimmed off. These are pure lead, of course, and will answer for all North American game, including grizzlies. This relatively small ball weighs just over 400gr. & is the size suitable for a muzzleloading 16 bore smoothbore gun, also a suitble siz for any Indian game, including Elephant and Tiger & buffalo. The reason for th trimmed wad, is for the remaining inside cup form. This holds the ball in the centre of the bore until discharged from the muzzle. This helps with accuracy, but your own testing with this and other methods will show what works best in your 'bore' gun.
: Some of my aquaintances have also used 20 bore sized balls of .615" and 320gr. weight, approximately, inside 12 gauge shot-cups, with a 20 bore fibre wad under the ball. They claim excellent accuracy with this ball size and very easy load preperation. All that is needed is a 12 bore AA white plastic wad, 20 bore fibre wad from 'TRACK' and a 20 bore ball. I personally prefer the larger .715" to .725" ball for non-choked guns, or the .684" ball for choked guns. The have found that normal shot-type laods worked well for these round ball loads. They matched the shot load data to the weight of the ball being used.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (03/11/06 07:06 AM)