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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia
Merkel Drillings?
      #59589 - 05/07/06 03:46 AM

Has anyone had any experience with Merkel drillings? I am considering selling my Remington XCR in 375H&H and a Rottweil SXS 12ga and purchasing a Merkel model 96J in 12ga with a 9.3X74R in the bottom barrel.
I have just had no experience with drillings and would like to here other people’s experiences with them. It would be used as a shotgun for Rabbits and Foxes as well as the occasional use on pigs and as a rifle for Sambar deer, Buffalo and scrub bulls.


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akjeff
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59601 - 05/07/06 08:59 AM

260,

While new to drillings, I'll pass on a few things I've learned to far. I've recently purchased, and began shooting a pre-war J.P. Sauer 12X12/9.3X74R.

First off, your choice of chamberings is, to me, the ultimate drilling combo for large game. I can't wait to hunt with mine!

A few things to look at very closely:
1.) The rate of twist of the rifle barrel. VERY important, if you intend to shoot 286gr bullets...it must be 1-14" or so. Mine is about 1-21", and 286's tumble. Fortunately, it works fine with 232gr Norma Oryxs', which will make a good hunting bullet. Mine may have originally been a 9.3X72R and re-chambered?

2.) See if the gun is marked with the load that the gun was either proofed and/or regulated with.

3.) Measure the shot barrel chamber length, and bore constriction. You'll find most vintage guns have 2-1/2" to 2-9/16" chambers. If you want 2-3/4", you'll have to really shop around.

4.) If you'll be buying a Germanic gun, I'd suggest going to the German Gun Collector's web site, and get the book on German Proof Marks.

Good luck!!! This drilling of mine has me hooked!!!!

Jeff

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luv2safari
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59602 - 05/07/06 09:40 AM

I owned one in the configuration you are considering, and it was an excellent drilling. It had a 3X12 Docter Optics in claw mounts and was an early 1980s gun. My only objection with the gun was that it was very heavy. I used it in Africa once and found it up to the task. It shot factory 285gr RWS ammo like it was made for the gun. The stock cracked at the wrist, and I had it repaired and reinforced; it was my one problem with the drilling.

You won't go wrong with one, in my opinion. I wish I hadn't parted with mine...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: luv2safari]
      #59616 - 05/07/06 05:08 PM

I should add some additional information.

The gun that I am looking at buying is a brand new Merkel model 96K – standard drilling, with 24” barrels in 12ga SXS with 3” chambers & a 9.3X74R barrel underneath. At a weight of just 7.7lbs it should make an excellent carry around rifle/shotgun with (hopefully) excellent balance and handling at that length and weight.

My plan was to use it as a shotgun for the most part, as I was considering having my current shotgun modified by trimming the barrels down to 24” and having rifle sights fitted as well.
I had planed on using it as a slug and buckshot gun for Pigs up north and as scattergun for Rabbits and Foxes down south but a friend that borrowed it recently liked it and has made a good offer on it.

As I don’t use my 375H&H very often, I just don’t have much game down here that warrants its use. But for big game up north I think a single 9.3mm 285gr pill should work just as well under 100m as a 300gr .375, then of course having a couple of Brenneke black magic DG slugs in the top tubes should provide more then enough protection if something large decides it doesn’t like my presence.

Has anyone used slugs in one? If so what was the regulation like at 50m?
I am also uncertain as to what it would be like to use a shotgun with a scope, should I leave a scope off or would 2X magnification still have a fast enough target acquisition on in close rabbits etc.

I have little wish to rush into a decision and want to make sure that what I buy now will suit my needs for many years to come. For instance while it will be used as a shotgun for small game and pigs with occasional use on Red and Sambar deer for the next few years, I will be moving to Darwin in the future and it will see use more on Pigs, Horses, Scrub Bulls and Buffalo then as I have friends with properties reasonably close by.


--------------------
One shot is all you need.

Edited by 260rem (05/07/06 08:03 PM)

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luv2safari
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59688 - 07/07/06 02:09 PM

260

I can tell you that it is common for drillings to shoot loose sooner than double rifles or shotguns. Traditionaly they were trimmed down as much as practicable everywhere to save weight, and this is why they were prone to shooting loose. The drilling was designed for the common German hide hunt, where one would shoot a few varied animals. The drillings didn't need to be quite as beefy, accordingly.

Heym had a hell of a time with their drillings in the early 1970s. They shot loose in no time. They had the "Old World" design being used with modern ammo. Those who used them for an everyday field gun soon found out the drilling's inherent weakness.

Now, to the Merkels...They are very strong in my experience with three post war guns, the 12/9,3X74R being my last and favorite one. If you use common sense and shoot 1 1/8 ounce field loads mostly, the gun should outlive you.

My 12/9,3 just happened to shoot ORIGINAL Brenneke slugs right dead center at 60 yards out the right barrel. I was clued to its being so regulated when I noticed that it was set up to allow for keeping the pop up rear sight up when the rifle barrel was not selected. This is a sure sign that the drilling has been set up to shoot slugs.

As to shooting the shotgun with a scope on...have claw mounts installed or Talley type bases, if possible. I have shot many chucker partridge while deer hunting with the scope on my combo guns; just remember to use both eyes open and concentrate. It makes you a better scattergunner in general if you practice with a scope in place.

I liken drillings to motor-sailer boats...they work well enough two ways and at times make you feel like you're cheating.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: luv2safari]
      #59692 - 07/07/06 08:09 PM

After looking a little more into it I am not completely happy with the 9.3X74R as a cartridge, it isn’t nearly as versatile a round as my current 375H&H is and I don’t want to handicap myself by trying to cover too much with the one gun.

I was originally after a new shotgun for hunting Pigs and other medium game with Buckshot and solid ball rounds, much like those used to hunt Boars in Italy.
With that in mind I have started looking at either a Beretta silver pigeon slug gun or a Sabatti SABA slug gun as they are more made to order for my purposes.

The other option that I would look at is a more modular system that would enable me to use it as a matched pair switch barrel Shotgun and double Rifle.


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One shot is all you need.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59791 - 10/07/06 03:35 PM

260 Rem
You might want to reconsider.
For the last several years I have been using a 9,3x74R double rifle [a Chapuis]. I have hunted with it in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Canada, and two Safaris to Zimbabwe. I have taken game from raccoon and bobcat to black bear, zebra, giraffe cape buff and elephant, with perfect results.

ANYTHING I could do with a 375 H&H I can do with a 9,3x74R.

The 9,3 has become one of my favorite calibres.

Several years ago I bought my wife a Sauer Drilling in 12x12x30-06 with a 4x Kahles in claw mounts.
I have snuck it out sevedral times my self and found it to be a great hunting gun.

I think a 12x12x9,3x74R drilling to be one of the best hunting guns on the Planet, and that is what I wanted.... However I discovered I could not take a 9,3 double and a 9,3 drilling through South Africa at the same time.

So, I found a Drilling just like my wifes a 12x12x30-06 Sauer. It is at Champlin Arms being fitted with a S&B 1-4 scope right now.

I found that her drilling is one of the best handling shotguns I have ever used. I like it much better than my 12 ga Browning Citori. Now I have one for myself.

As an American the 12x12x30-06 is certainly a premier choice for a drilling... However the 9,3x74R is one of the greatest hunting calibers there is.

You just could not beat a scoped drilling in 12x12x9,3x74R.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: NE450No2]
      #59800 - 10/07/06 09:57 PM

In reply to:

However I discovered I could not take a 9,3 double and a 9,3 drilling through South Africa at the same time.



I know the law prevents two firearms in the same calibre but how silly. How ideal it would be to have a 9.3mm double and a 12g side by side with a "spare" 9.3 barrel underneath for hunting.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59801 - 10/07/06 10:05 PM

In reply to:

After looking a little more into it I am not completely happy with the 9.3X74R as a cartridge, it isn’t nearly as versatile a round as my current 375H&H is and I don’t want to handicap myself by trying to cover too much with the one gun.



260rem,

I think the only handicap is a minor one in the field.

A real handicap might be if you ever hunt Africa where a 9.3x74R might not be legal for some dangerous game.

There isn't a lot between the two cartridges.

I like your idea of a drilling a lot more than a shotgun designed for slugs or buckshot. A 9.3 plus two brenneckes, if needed, would do some damage on scrub bulls and buffalo at closer ranges. An ideal close pig gun too.

On the scope question, I do not like scopes on a shotgun if shooting shot. A good set of claw QD mounts would be needed.

However a double rifle with shotgun barrels is ALSO not a bad idea.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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260rem
.375 member


Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: NitroX]
      #59804 - 11/07/06 12:19 AM

My present 375H&H is an excellent rifle for shots out to 300m and it handles well for fast shots up close and can handle any conditions that Mother Nature can dish out.

If I can get a drilling for a decent price I might just snatch it up but as I can get a new shotgun like I was originally looking for and pay for a couple of Buffalo hunts up north with the extra cash.

I had a look at switch barrel SXS rifle-shotgun combos but the all the ones that I could find only come with 20ga barrels, still I am “very” tempted by the Heym 450Nitro and 20ga combo, I like the clean lines and no fuss look of them.

But I have wanted a traditional boar-hunting shotgun for years and I think that I will get it 1st, but I will get a Heym 450Nitro & 20ga or a Merkel 12ga SXS over 9.3X74R with maybe a spare set of 9.3X74R SXS over 20ga or similar down the track.


--------------------
One shot is all you need.

Edited by 260rem (11/07/06 12:27 AM)

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59828 - 11/07/06 02:21 PM

see a very interesting old east german Buehag 16 ga sxs with a SEM mount by a local dealer here. the action is great a cape gun-double gun action, of course a project gun for a double rifle. dont know what the price is. came new in the shop last week but only a SEM mount cost over 800 euro now.
old hunting law make it difficult with rifles in former east germany but a SEM mount on a shotgun was no problem in this time.
when I get pics will post it here

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NE450No2
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: pwm]
      #59834 - 11/07/06 04:19 PM

Nitro,
I agree it is a silly rule.


You can get the Chapuis 470 double fitted with 12 ga bbls.

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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: NE450No2]
      #59838 - 11/07/06 07:01 PM

Do you have a model number? I just had a look at the Chapuis web site and I couldn't find one that came with both rifle and shotgun barrels. If it I can get one I might just sell my 12ga and 375H&H after all as that would be a top option.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59876 - 12/07/06 01:45 PM

260
Contact www.champlinarms.com and tell them what you want.

580-237-7388

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260rem
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: NE450No2]
      #59889 - 13/07/06 01:16 AM

The way things are looking on the Sabatti front at the moment I might wind up buying the Merkel after all, my other option is the Beretta which is only a few thousand less then the Merkel.
Still a big difference but IMO the Merkel is probably worth the cost it is just a shame that I would have to sell my 375H&H XCR.

.


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Kalunga
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: 260rem]
      #59901 - 13/07/06 05:28 AM

Hi 260 ! Although I never owned a drilling, I heard a lot from other German hunters using them for decades. First, if you want to use slugs, the drilling should be ordered from Merkel accordingly, then it is no problem to regulate them for you. Even better if you name the type of slugs you intend to use. The combination 12 ga / 9,3x74R is fantastic for all-round use, except for the African Big Boys, I'm not sure about Australia's buffaloes. My last advice is to stay away from the German claw-mount, they are almost obsolete here in Gerrmany, most hunters prefer a swing-mount these days, for example a EAW or comparable. When you use a claw-mount and decide to change the scope, It's gonna be VERY expensive compared to a change with swing-mounts.

Wicked good hunting !

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500Nitro
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: Kalunga]
      #59902 - 13/07/06 05:35 AM


A 9.3 x 74R will drop a Buffalo, Scrub Bull no problems
if the bullet is put in the right place.

It may not do it with quite the authority of a 375H&H and bigger cals
but I've seen a few drop to the 9.3.

Better to shoot it in the right spot with a good bullet than hit it in the
foot with a Big Bore !!!

500 Nitro

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: Kalunga]
      #59958 - 14/07/06 07:12 PM

In reply to:

My last advice is to stay away from the German claw-mount, they are almost obsolete here in Gerrmany, most hunters prefer a swing-mount these days, for example a EAW or comparable. When you use a claw-mount and decide to change the scope, It's gonna be VERY expensive compared to a change with swing-mounts.



Kalunga

Can you explain the difference? I thought EAW were "claw mounts"?

BTW I don't have any of either. My QDs are the Warne/Kimber/Buehler type, plus a set of Valmet ones.

Not wanting to hyjack the thread, perhaps on a new one?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Kalunga
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: NitroX]
      #60031 - 17/07/06 12:16 AM

Hello NitroX the EAW mount I was talking about is a swing mount and is a kind of standard in Germany now. At the
front part of the mount is a sturdy pivot that takes all the forces of recoil. The rearward part ensures alingning with the gun. All parts are CNC- machined to tight tolerances, so little work of a highly competent gunsmith is necessary, contrary to a claw mount, where lots of hours are spent fitting all parts together. The claw mount has most often four, seldom three, claws which engage in their female counterparts in the bases, the two front claws take also most of the punch. But all surfaces have to fit perfectly together or accuracy is just a dream.
A big advantage of the swing mount is that you could change the optics with no big investments as is the case with a custom claw mount. There are numerous used guns for sale here in Germany with an obsolete rifle scope, for example a 4x32, mounted with a claw mount, and you know you have to put a considerable sum into the rifle as you not only need a bigger and more modern scope but also a new mount as well because the old parts will not fit with the bigger dimensions of the new scope. With a swing mount you just switch the upper parts, which are available in all kind of configurations, and that's it.
How about your QD-mounts, are they reliable and take the punch of a .416 ? There is one point I don't like with the EAW mounts and that is their height. They are too high for my taste. I like the scopes to be mounted as low as possible.
Wicked good hunting

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Husqvarna
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: luv2safari]
      #66035 - 18/11/06 02:29 AM

A Merkel 96 should have the right barrel ie the one still active with the rifle barrel active regulated so shoot a brenneke to poi with the rifle sights at 50 meters.

I have a Merkel 32 with a decent stock in it and she is my constant companion in the woods the 7x57R round will do the trick on all and any game that I find here in Sweden.
[image]http://forum.robsoft.nu/album_pic.php?pic_id=2180[/image]


I also got lucky at an auction last weekend and bought my first Double

[image]http://widforss.chiaro.mrfriday.com/auktioner/bilder/31/H06_590.jpg[/image]
And a very lovely 16/70 svs Belgique shotgun.

[image]http://widforss.chiaro.mrfriday.com/auktioner/bilder/31/H06_125.jpg[/image]

I hope that you guys like the pics....

Best regards Chris



Edited by Husqvarna (18/11/06 02:34 AM)

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Double_Trouble
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Re: Merkel Drillings? [Re: Husqvarna]
      #66041 - 18/11/06 03:59 AM

images didn't load for me, but congrats on your purchase!

Shoot well !

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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