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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular?
#59479 - 30/06/06 03:50 PM

We often see combinations, drillings, cape guns chambered in this vintage round. Why is it not more popular seeing the number of firearms chambered for it floating around?

Is it still possible to reloading components, dies etc for the 9.3x72R?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (01/07/06 04:29 AM)

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#59482 - 30/06/06 10:27 PM

till ww 1 it was so popular in germany that it get a special name: Foersterpatrone = forester cartridge.
Only the 8,15x46R get the same honour and was called with a own name: Schuetzenpatronen because it was allmost every time use in schuetzen rifles.
This are the only cartridges with a name anyone knows and understand.
Hunting law after WW 2 makes the 9,3x72R illegal for big game hunting in germany because it dont have the min. power of 2000 joule on 100 meters. Of course, modern powders bring it back in law again. anyone who have use it will tell you that it is a great hunting cartridge.
interessting note is that the once in america very popular 30-30WCF and the now in russia very popular7,62x39 Kal. are in the same class.

(Edited: Title corrected)

Edited by NitroX (01/07/06 04:31 AM)

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luv2safari
.400 member

Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#59499 - 01/07/06 12:37 PM

Ammo is expensive for a deer cartridge, a bit hard to find at times; reloading components are not readily available. The bullet used for this round is terrible in design...why a flat nose short, soft bullet for a break open gun?? It has very low power, and kills like all get out to 125 yards...

I have taken five mule deer with the 9,3X72R, all one shot kills. It performs like a 30-30 or 35 Remington...very similar to a 38-55. It just makes the legal threshold of 1000 foot-pounds energy at 100 yards, as used by many States for the minimum for deer, on up.

It suffers in design from its black powder birth...I love the round!

Guns chambered for it tend to be light and graceful, and it doesn't kick the snott out of the shooter.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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zaitsev
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Reged: 15/05/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Trysil, Norway

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: luv2safari]
#59505 - 02/07/06 12:41 AM

one of the cheapest ways to get a drilling is to go for one with 9,3x72 R in the barrel, but unfortunatelly since leadammo for the shotgun is banned here, what to do then ,and the alternative ammo is expensive.

But a kipplauf should be nice, Sellier&Bellot loads the ammo and also makes brass and bullets for it since it has a 193 grain bullet as oppsed to the 286 grain of the 9,3x74R.

It was called in Germany the" Foerstmanns" cartridge as a drilling was his workingtool and badge of office.

There is many still and its good for roedeer, its not allowed for moose over here,since energy requirements arnt high enough.

--------------------
The world hasnt got enough big Bores ,and people who uses them

(mr rigby at AR)

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: luv2safari]
#59514 - 02/07/06 04:25 AM

In reply to:

The bullet used for this round is terrible in design...why a flat nose short, soft bullet for a break open gun??

Can't it be reloaded with other 9.3mm projectiles?

Do you know who makes brass for the 72mm.

Occaisionally one sees very nicely priced rifles, cape guns etc available in this chambering.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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zaitsev
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Reged: 15/05/06
Posts: 138
Loc: Trysil, Norway

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#59522 - 02/07/06 11:46 AM

RWS has made brass, dont know how its now, but with TMF 190 grain bullet wit R 903 powder of weiht from 47-51 grain it s pushed out from 550 ms to 660 ms, COL 85,3mm.

I saw adrilling here for about 1300 us and a kipplauf for about a 1000 us, Sellier &bellot makes brass aswell and theyre alright, i dont know if it can be reloaded with heavier bullets, but the lighter would probably work but i think that the velocity would be low.

--------------------
The world hasnt got enough big Bores ,and people who uses them

(mr rigby at AR)

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pwm
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Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: zaitsev]
#59544 - 03/07/06 04:27 AM

the 193grain flat softpoint have a long and interessting history, it starts with Teschner-Collath in Frankfurt/ Oder around 1900. Remember that nitro powder and jacket bullets are brandnew than and allmost every hunting gun also when new was a blackpowder gun.
Teschner Collath develop the so called Tesco Bullet, a nickel platted copper jacket softpoint in every diameter from 6,5 to 500 BP. The Tesco bullet have a very short groove diameter part, looking more than 2 driving bands. This and the soft nickel platted copper hold pressure down in old blackpowder guns with smokless powder and be very friendly in old barrels designed for blackpowder and lead bullets.
If you start to reload this cartridge stay with the tesco bullet till you have more experience with the gun. It was allways satisfy, of course there are some people in Germany making test with new solids or other bullets from time to time.
Finish powder firm Vihtavuori makes a new powder and it was possible to get more speed with the bullet now and stay in the service pressure. the CIP pressure was set to be safe in any old blackpowder gun.
Rws has drop the 9,3x72R arround 1995 because some idiots are thinking it was allmost dead.
Some times later Sellier&Bellot start produktion again, allmost copy the RWS load that havn't change realy since WW1.
The 9,3x72R have a .364 dia bullet, do not use .366 dia. bullet, never.
Only the 9mm Makarov pistol cartridge have the same diameter. the CIP list allow a .376 dia. bullet, please do not confuse about this . It means only lead bullets or bullets like the Tesco having 2 or more driving bands and only the upper driving band have the ,376 dia. It is not realy possible to load such a bullet in the case , only the "stopring" over the case mouth can have it and will chamber.
There are secrets and problems with this cartridge and you have to look at the old blackpowder round to understand it
Than RWS comes back with the cartridge, believe in 2004.
So its living more than before.

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zaitsev
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Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: pwm]
#59547 - 03/07/06 10:43 AM

If only it would be a good bonded bullet for it,like a Woodleigh, then it would have been better.

--------------------
The world hasnt got enough big Bores ,and people who uses them

(mr rigby at AR)

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Taylor416
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Reged: 25/11/04
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Loc: Central West, New South Wales....

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#59646 - 06/07/06 11:41 AM

Nitrox,
I had a drilling in 9.3 x 72r and experimented with 230 gn hollow points, as I wanted something heavier than the 196 gn flat nose RWS as an alternative for larger game than pigs, however it did not shoot terribly well with them. A gunsmith friend of mine had a drilling with hammers and they shot ok with it from memory. Mind you my 9.3 x 62 doesn't like the 230 gn projies as well. I didn't have a chrono in those days or access to one so have no record of velocities.

I would imagine that it would be a great fallow cartridge up to 100 metres tho as it worked .

cheers

Chris

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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NitroX
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Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: Taylor416]
#59659 - 06/07/06 03:03 PM

In reply to:

The 9,3x72R have a .364 dia bullet, do not use .366 dia. bullet, never.

I did not realise this.

Could not .366 bullets be swaged down as the increment is so small?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#59663 - 06/07/06 04:21 PM

Yes, 366 culd very easily be swaged down to .364.

In fact, 2 thou is very little.

500Nitro

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Taylor416
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Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: pwm]
#59681 - 07/07/06 11:28 AM

PWM

A lot of good information from you regarding this cartridge and the 193 gn bullet (not 196gn like I said before) I stil have a couple of hundred of these projectiles which I purchased some years ago in the hope of finding a cape gun in this calibre. The specifications on the diameter size certainly explain some things that i noticed while experimenting with the 232Gn projectiles that I obtained.

cheers

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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fuhrmann
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Reged: 04/01/05
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Loc: Switzerland

Re: Why isn't the 9.3x72R more popular? [Re: NitroX]
#66808 - 11/12/06 08:20 PM

Quote:

We often see combinations, drillings, cape guns chambered in this vintage round. Why is it not more popular seeing the number of firearms chambered for it floating around?

Is it still possible to reloading components, dies etc for the 9.3x72R?

After WWII, the 9.3x72R was classified as obsolete cartridge in West Germany - no more guns to be chambered, ammo only to be made as long as there is demand.
There where 2 loads available even after the war, one a very moderate load (12.5 g bullet, ca. 600 m/s), suitable and legal for roe deer, and a rather heavy load (close to 700 m/s) which should have been legal for bigger game.
However the heavy load was discontinued at some time, probably to avoid accidents (many guns only having BP proof or being in bad shape).
The last production run of the "light load" from RWS was I don't know when.
Sellier & Bellot later also produced only a light load.

In recent times, "roe deer only" cartridges are not very popular in Germany, due to the spread of wild boar.

fuhrmann

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