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pichon1
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Reged: 28/06/06
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Loc: Perth.Western Australia
JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR
      #59425 - 29/06/06 12:42 PM

Hello to all those out there in double rifle land.I am new to this forum but have been checking previous posts for the last few weeks and have been astonished at the wealth of knowledge available not to mention the passion of the members involved,fantastic.I look forward participating.I do have a question.Having been facinated by the John"Pondoro" Taylor story for years I read with interest(Mickeys post I think) that he sold a Wilkes DR to an American gentleman in 1965.The bill of sale shows his address being a PO box in P.E.A.(now Mozambique).I have always been under the impression that he never returned to Africa after his alleged deportation around 1957.Any information would be greatly appreciated.Many thanks.

Edited by pichon1 (29/06/06 01:08 PM)


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Marrakai
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59428 - 29/06/06 01:37 PM

Pichon1:
I can't answer, but perhaps the info is contained in Crapstick's biography "A Man Called Lion". Do you have it? It's not on my shelf, but I'll grab the next copy I see if the price is right.

The 'Pondoro' phenomenon is indeed of high interest to double rifle owners!

BTW, welcome to the forum. Are your ancestors French?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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pichon1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: Marrakai]
      #59430 - 29/06/06 01:53 PM

Hi Marrakai, thanks for your welcome.Have got Capsticks book and he is one of those who believes that Pondoro never returned after leaving in 1957.No French ancestry,Pichon comes from Pichon Comtesse de Lalande my favorite wine,which does come from France.By the way the book is worth a read.Speak to you soon.

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mickey
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59431 - 29/06/06 02:08 PM

In reply to:

Pichon comes from Pichon Comtesse de Lalande my favorite wine,which does come from France.By the way the book is worth a read.Speak to you soon.




Don't let Nitro read that.

I think he did go back for a visit and a hunt with a rich visitor. That's what Alex Maitland said anyway.

Don't believe everything you read from Capstick.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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pichon1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: mickey]
      #59433 - 29/06/06 02:24 PM

Thanks for the reply Mickey,the plot thickens.I have got a brochure from Holland and Holland where A.Maitland says QUOTE"After 3 years spent in Australia where he hunted buffalo in the Northern Territory Taylor returned briefly Malawi and from there to London in December 1958.He never visited Africa again."Confusing for sure.Cheers Pichon1.

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bulldog563
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59436 - 29/06/06 03:55 PM

Welcome to the forum.

A couple of books you may be interested in getting;

"Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright

and

"The Hammerless Double Rifle" by Alexander Gray

They have nothing to do with Taylor but thought if you were interested in Double Rifles they would be right up your alley. Wrights book is the better of the two in my opinion but Gray's book is also good (although don't spend too much on it as there are some people who think it is worth its weight in gold).

Also highly recommend you getting "African Rifles and Cartridges" by Taylor if you dont already have it. Some very good info.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp


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rgp
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: mickey]
      #59480 - 30/06/06 04:41 PM

I am under the impression that Capstick was originally a New York City travel agent who was also writing articles on Africa then was forced to actually go to Africa by his publisher, then later published a lot of stories he heard while running a bar in South Africa.

I don't know when Capstick started writing, but some of the apparent information parallels the 1963 Bob Hope movie "Call Me Bwana" which was about an author in New York who was supposedly the world's foremost expert on Africa although he'd never been there.

Richard


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Kalunga
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: rgp]
      #59483 - 30/06/06 10:50 PM

Hello RGP , a PH from RSA told me that Capstick worked as a bar-tender in Maun, Botswana, where he heard numerous storys from PHs. And when you take a look at his "work permit" in "Safari - The Last Adventure ", you will see that it is merely a visa stamp, written "work permit" over the original stamp. But certainly Peters writings are excellent and I enjoy reading them very much. Besides everybody that knew him said he was a very nice guy. Just ordered two more PHC books.

Wicked good hunting !


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N320AW
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59516 - 02/07/06 04:33 AM

I've been a Taylor fan for years and have all his books. I also have " A Man Called Lion " by Capstick as well as some correspondence with A. Maitland. Here's what I can gather about Taylor although there may be inaccuracies:

Taylor's Wilkes .450#2 was seized by local police and not returned to him. It later ended up with an American.

Taylor arrived in London (1957) almost broke. Someone said that he had the Wilkes on arrival and sold it. However, Taylor, until he died, had to make do with menial jobs in London. Park-Keeper, and a dog kennel position.

Brian Marsh of South Africa did most of the research for Capstick's book. He also knew Taylor well. He is or was a contributing editor to Magnum magazine in S.A.

It's been rumored that Taylor approached Holland & Holland looking for some type of employment, however, Holland has seached their records and cannot authenticate this.

Taylor was in Austrailia for about 3 years at the invitation of John Dawkins. There he wrote " Maneaters and Marauders " and " Shadows of Shame. " Dawkins, on his first trip to Africa, had written to Taylor in Africa, and got together with [him] when he arrived. They hunted together and then left for Oz.

I know nothing about Taylor going back to Africa at all. Maitland should know as they corresponded and met often. Maitland was also the executor of Taylor's estate after his death.

I agree with some that Capstick's information could be tainted a bit. I've read the book about 30 times and have enjoyed it, however, Capstick makes many assertions about Taylor that no one could possibly know . . . not having actually been there. I suppose he did this to make the tale flow more smoothly.

Hope this will be of some help to you.


--------------------
" Nature does not care whether the hunter slays the beast or the beast the hunter She will make good compost of them both and her ends are prospered whichever succeeds. "


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pichon1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: N320AW]
      #59555 - 03/07/06 05:32 PM

Thanks for the reply N320AW, it would appear that one person who would certainly know if Pondoro returned to Africa in 1965 is the gentleman who bought the Wilkes 450 from him.(quoted in old Guns&Ammo article posted on forum)
Maitland has been quoted as both confirming and denying Taylors supposed return to the Dark Continent.
Capstick was good friends with Bob Langeveld,a legendry elephant hunter and says that he was involved cropping elephant with him for some time.Given that one doesnt B...l S..t about hunting with mates I believe he(Capstick)must have some fair experience shooting jumbos.


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Ndumo
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59565 - 04/07/06 02:00 AM

Slightly off topic, Capstick did work for Geoff Broom (father of Russ Broom), when they still had Matetsi, as a PH. Apparently, he was a lousy hunter (sorry!), but he was a great writer, and I believe did more to popularize African hunting than most anyone, and should be honoured as such. I love his books, now (experienced in DG hunting) even more since the first time I have read it. I have also found a few faults in his writings, but will continue to honour him for what he was.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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SteveH
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: Ndumo]
      #59568 - 04/07/06 02:58 AM

I was told the same thing by Rory Muil of Russ Broom Safaris. Capstick did a couple of hunts for Geoff Broom but they were "disasters". Geoff kept him on as camp host, as he was quite engaging and entertaining.

Every PH I've asked about Capstick all agreed that dispite any faults, he was the reason for the sucess of the modern safari industry.

-Steve


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59569 - 04/07/06 04:20 AM

In reply to:

Capstick was good friends with Bob Langeveld,a legendry elephant hunter and says that he was involved cropping elephant with him for some time.Given that one doesnt B...l S..t about hunting with mates I believe he(Capstick)must have some fair experience shooting jumbos.




I was told by a good source Capstick shot 3 or 5 (can't remember which) elephants.

He claims on his elephant hunting film to have shot 800 elephants, but the film is immediately cut as the last word of the sentence was said. Probably because he burst out laughing or something ........

***

As for Taylor, I have a book with a mention of a short visit/holiday back to Africa after a visit to Australia. I will put the quotation and the source up at a more convenient time.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DUGABOY1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: NitroX]
      #59585 - 05/07/06 12:49 AM

In reply to:

He claims on his elephant hunting film to have shot 800 elephants, but the film is immediately cut as the last word of the sentence was said. Probably because he burst out laughing or something ........




John, you may be correct in your opinion of PHC's ele shooting experience, but not of the quote in the film! I believe the actual quote is, "I have shot some 800 Elephant...... I say shot, but I mean in on the shooting of!" . My information is that he only shot 5 elephant for himself, but was in on the shooting of client's eles, and did cropping for the parks people. I've never taken an Elephant either, but I placed two 500 gr solids in the heart of a 70 pounder, that belonged to a friend, who botched the first frontal brain shot, and my shots would have killed the bull quickly, however, my friend placed his second shot as the ele turned, in the neck reaching the brain, puting him down in a cloud of dust! SO...... I guess, I could say I shot a 70 pounder! It's not a lie, but it would be misleading if not explianed!

PHC's Book on Taylor was intirely written from the information given him by Brian Marsh, and a couple others, and was simply put into intertaining prose by Capstick! I firmly believe the stories people love to spread are nothing but over the back fence, gossip that has far less to back it than anything PHC wrote. My question is, how many here who are offering opinion as fact, have ever even spoken to PHC face to face?

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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mickey
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #59587 - 05/07/06 01:20 AM

I don't know how many Elephants PHC has shot. I do know he didn't shoot any with Bob Langeveld.

He is said to have been a top notch Jaguar hunter there.

He was a funny and entertaining man and I miss most of his writing. Whether or not he exaggerated a bit is irrelevant. What writer doesn't? Oh yeah, Elmer Kieth

When he wasn't promoting his books or himself he was very down to earth about his accomplishments.





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #59591 - 05/07/06 04:24 AM

My quotation comes direct from his own mouth on his video. I have been all through this before and re-watched the film to get his exact words, so don't intend to do it again, or again! Watch the video.

He also claims to have shot more elephant than anyone alive today (when he made the film of course).

People aren't knocking him personally but authors can't be cute and get upset if what they write as fact is questioned if it is questionable. A pretty normal thing in literary circles.

Even more so people not actually connected with him that may have just shook his hand once and liked the gentleman.

I find his books (most of them anyway) and his hunting videos entertaining.

Actually a lot of African books and memoirs are not exactly "non-fiction". Take Karen Blixen's "Out of Africa", "Shadows on the Grass" etc. A lot of fictional stories in these books too. Some very learned litery types have analysed her "non-fiction" books and her and other letters and compared the stories and accounts and found examples of happenings which were re-written to be entertaining stories and 'happenings' in her books. Eg the story of "Kumante", who may never actually existed as a person. The true basis of 'Kumante' was discovered in her letters from Africa to various people.

And these persons greatly admire her works.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: NitroX]
      #59592 - 05/07/06 04:30 AM

Some evidence of "Pondoro" returning to Africa is found in John Dawkin's book, "Rogues and Marauders."


"After some years in Australia he returned to England via Africa, where he spent a couple of weeks having one last look at his beloved Africa. He spent the last few years of his life in London, and in 1969 he left for the 'Happy Hunting Grounds', where I hope he finds hunting as wonderful as it was in his Africa."


Trophy Room Books reprint 1990, "Introduction to Facsimilie" dated 1989 by John Dawkins in Australia.

So the 1965 date may be right after all.

John Dawkins was an Australian "ivory hunter" who hunted with the more elderly Taylor, actually "under" his licence utilising his elephant quota and sharing the spoils from ivory sales, as well as his own licence. It seems Taylor did this with several persons, including another Australian hunter, the son of, or grandson of (I forget which again!) confided some facts with me.

Later Dawkins had Taylor as a guest at his farm in South Australia where one of Taylor's books was written and also hunted water buffalo with him in the "Top End".

As for the difference in years in Aust mentioned on these posts, I think he visited Australia more than once but would need to research the source of that info.

The publishing date of the books mentioned above may be helpful but not necessarily conclusive.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DUGABOY1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: NitroX]
      #59594 - 05/07/06 05:16 AM

In reply to:

My quotation comes direct from his own mouth on his video. I have been all through this before and re-watched the film to get his exact words, so don't intend to do it again, or again! Watch the video.




John , maybe we are talking about two different videos! Come to think about it, I may be off center, because it just zinged into my old 70 yr old mind, that the quote I posted may have been from his AUDIO interview with Ken Wilson, and not on a video at all.

Still it explains what he meant by the statement! Like you, I have all his films, and books, and I don't realish viewing them all again to prove a point that is not needed to further world peace!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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pichon1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: mickey]
      #59603 - 05/07/06 09:58 AM

Hi Mickey
any chance of letting us in on how you know PHC never shot any elephants with Langeveld?
Cheers
Pichon1


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DUGABOY1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: pichon1]
      #59606 - 05/07/06 12:16 PM

In reply to:

Hi Mickey
any chance of letting us in on how you know PHC never shot any elephants with Langeveld?
Cheers
Pichon1




I'd like to read the answer to that one, as well!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #68130 - 27/12/06 11:47 PM

A bit slow during Christmas holidays, so I'm doing an older thread "spinner". BTTT.

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mickey
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #68170 - 28/12/06 01:26 AM

Mac

I knew Bobo quite well. Hunted with him a few times. He taught me how to hunt Elephants. Later he moved here for 3 years. PHC was assigned to him as an assistant when he first went to Zambia.

No point in the long, and funny version but suffice to say he did not shoot any Elephants with Bobo, although he had the opportunity.

I suggest you review the Rhino hunt he did on video. I think there are a couple of hints in there.

Bob Langeveld shot over 3,000 Elephants while working in 5 Countries. Mostly as a control officer. He tried being a PH a couple of times but was loath to suffer fools. Obviouly not PH material.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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bulldog563
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: mickey]
      #68366 - 30/12/06 03:29 PM

Quote:



I suggest you review the Rhino hunt he did on video. I think there are a couple of hints in there.






How about a clue?

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
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DUGABOY1
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Re: JOHN "PONDORO"TAYLOR [Re: bulldog563]
      #68975 - 07/01/07 03:13 AM

Quote:

Welcome to the forum.

A couple of books you may be interested in getting;

"Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright

and

"The Hammerless Double Rifle" by Alexander Gray

They have nothing to do with Taylor but thought if you were interested in Double Rifles they would be right up your alley. Wrights book is the better of the two in my opinion but Gray's book is also good (although don't spend too much on it as there are some people who think it is worth its weight in gold).

Also highly recommend you getting "African Rifles and Cartridges" by Taylor if you dont already have it. Some very good info.




The Alexander Grey book "The Hammerless Double Rifle" is a fine book, but you will need it really bad if the pay the going price for it! It is going now for between $750, and $800 USD. I have a prestene copy, but I paid $45 for it when they were not so rare!

The Graeme Wright book will answer a lot of questions, you had no idea needed answering, or even asked!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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