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Hunting >> Hunting in the Americas
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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: NE450No2]
      #56792 - 10/05/06 04:41 PM

Oh ya'll forgot poisonous snakes.
My wife was almost bit by a rattlesnake just last weekend.
One shot from a properly handled and loaded 44 Mag saved the day.
A Speer shotshell is the Proper load in this case.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: NE450No2]
      #56815 - 10/05/06 10:41 PM

I had heard that the revolver shot shells were bad for the rifling in the barrel. Has anyone else heard this?

Personally I would feel more comfortble with a 460 S&W or a 500 S&W.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: bulldog563]
      #56861 - 11/05/06 04:02 AM

That's exactly the kind of over confidence that I was talking about. You'd be willing to bet your life on drawing that hogleg out from within your sleeping bag after being awoke with a 900# bear chewing on you?
There'll be a fresh shiney 44 laying on the ground someday.
You have no idea just how fast things can and do happen with a bear in thick brush or alder thickets. Were you aware that a bear can out run a quarter horse for a good distance? Do you think that in that 2-4 seconds you'll be able to draw and hit the CNS. Forget the brain shoty. It won't work because of the slope of the skull, it'll deflect away.

I don't know how you do it where ever you're from but here we try our best not to get into a pissing contest with a skunk because we know what we will smell like afterwards..

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: AkMike]
      #56892 - 11/05/06 01:21 PM

bulldog
I have shot home made shotshells and the Speer shotshells in several rifles with no ill effects, as far as I can tell.

With them my wife and I have taken snakes, rabbits, squirrel, quail, grouse, and I have killed problem porcupines.
We haave found them very useful.


AKMike
Do you have any type of insurance? Do you wear a seatbelt?
Do you carry a spare tire?
I just cannot understand people who do not prepare for a dangerous animal encounter, when in DG country.
If you do not have a gun, you have NO chance.

I DO KNOW if I have a suitable gun, with suitable ammo I at least STAND A CHANCE.
I have killed a cape buff at @ 12 yards.
I have Killed 3 elephants and a gorilla at 6 yards and under.
I have killed 2 black bear under 12 yards, another elephant at 12 yards.
I have killed one dog that had attacked 2 other people sending them to the hospital is serious condition, at about 8 yards, I killed one dog at point blank range, it was a Rodesian Ridgeback trained attack dog, when I say point blank my pistol was in contact with his head when I shot him.

I respect dangerous animals... But they do not SCARE ME if I am properly armed.

So far I have not been bit, chewed, tossed or stomped.
I plan to keep it that way.

I would rather bet my life on being able to draw my "hogleg" while in the sleeping bag, than not to have it and just be a burrito for the bear.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: NE450No2]
      #56905 - 11/05/06 03:31 PM

"I DO KNOW if I have a suitable gun, with suitable ammo I at least STAND A CHANCE"


My point EXACTLY.. A 44 is not a suitable gun and as such cannot have suitable ammo so you have no chance against a pissed off polar bear or a brownie!

A pistol has it's place and like luv2safari said make sure it's got a very short barrel when you're around bears!




--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: AkMike]
      #56907 - 11/05/06 04:02 PM

I am in Australia and after reading these posts on Bears in North America what rifle/calibre would be best to drop these killers? , I don't mean long distance rifle but short range say under 50 yards and under. I have never hunted bear but something like a Winchester 1895 in .405 or Marlin in .444Mar I would think would be the go because of quick second shot.

What is more popular amongst the experienced hunters Lever, Bolt, Pump,Semi-Auto?

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: RLI]
      #56908 - 11/05/06 04:49 PM

Steve,
For a scenerio with a brownie charging under 50 yards you want to toss everything including the kitchen sink at it! They're incredably fast with a sloped head that will turn a slug away.They can out run a fast horse for a short distance. If it were my azz on the line like that again I'd want a 'streetsweeper' style semi-auto shotgun with a few slugs first then 00 buckshot. Either that or a full auto 105 howitzer!!!
Once the adrenal glands kick in they can take an incredable amount of lead. Much like a Cape Buffalo or Water Buffalo I'd think. But I've never hunted these yet. Brownies I have.



--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: AkMike]
      #56927 - 11/05/06 10:32 PM

I carry a 45 Ruger Bisley SA with hot loads in Bear country. I have not shot any bear with it though. I do recall reading about a park ranger who carried a hot loaded 45 SA for years and found it adequate for shooting scores of black bear.
I sleep with the Ruger close at hand as it is more accessible and handy than a rifle in close quarters and should serve well for a non adrenalized hungry bear who is tent shopping for food.

In the open with a pissed off bear that 45 Ruger is not enough gun and a rifle is needed.

IMHO--different circumstances, different weaponry for big bear encounters. For smaller black bears the handgun alone may be adequate.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (11/05/06 10:33 PM)

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: AkMike]
      #57042 - 13/05/06 03:07 AM

Mike,
There's truth in what you say, however, I think you underestimate Tony's proficiency with a sidearm and his coolness under dangerous game encounter stress. If you will look through his past postings here and on other forums, you will find he's quite the character. A .44 Mag is not an ideal firearm for stopping a brown bear charge, yes I have faced charges and I've seen big brownies shot with .44's. However, if it is what you have, it's better than nothing. In my personal opinion, the only way to absolutely stop a charging brownie with a HANDGUN or sub 40 cal rifle is a direct CNS hit. Would a 44 with the proper loads give adequate penetration in the right place for that? Yes, it would. I believe Tony is practiced enough with his .44 and is cool enough in those type situations to use whatever he has to the best of his favor. Not many people are capable of that, but not many are willing to take on elephants less than 5 yards, either.

When working in the remote areas where the bears outnumber people or just about anything else, and doing things where I cannot carry a long gun in my hands (my personal opinion is a shotgun or rifle slung over your shoulder in the alder and devils club jungles makes you a spectator), I carry a large bore revolver, worked over by Hamilton Bowen for absolute certainty of it not malfunctioning. It is chambered for something more than a 44, but I carried a hot loaded 45 Colt for years.

With a handgun or just about any firearm, excluding a CNS hit, with a charging bear I believe you will get one shot to stop or turn the bear. A CNS hit with a 44 (with proper bullets) will stop a bear the same as a CNS hit with a rifle at those type of ranges. If you don't stop or turn the bear with your first shot, you aren't likely to get a second. I would never suggest someone that isn't well practiced and intimately familiar with their handguns to use them as bear protection. I do believe, though, for some, it can be a lifesaver.

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: American Dangerous Game [Re: NE450No2]
      #58013 - 30/05/06 10:06 PM

I would not favour hunting a large bear with a belt gun, however from a survivability point of view - to travel in bear country without one - where legal of coarse - is folly. Consider being dragged from you tent while you are trapped in a sleeping bag, consider the bear making contact with you in thick cover and you loose your primary firearm, consider a predatory camp intruder which appears when your primary firearm is out of reach, or perhaps you just plain don't see him until he's on top of you. Under these conditions a .44 or .45 revolver with heavy bullets can save you from a horrible experience - but only if you are wearing it. Consider the "Boomer Trap" below -




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