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NitroXAdministrator
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"Nitro Express" - why?
      #5539 - 09/12/03 03:47 PM

As most of you would know the term "Nitro Express" originated from the combination of Nitro Cellulose, the base of cordite, the propellant which replaced Black Powder. And the the word "Express" to indicate speed, named after the "Express Trains" of the time. These trains were considered very fast and the latest proof of the sophistication of the Industrial Age. Perhaps also the imagery that the projectile hit with the force of an "Express Train". Who said marketing was traditional in the 1890's?

"Nitro Express" was the "Magnum" term of the age. Even the philosophy was similar. Magnums were pre-dominantly smaller bores and very fast, relying on shock. While we think of NE's as large bore and slower, relying on penetration, infact compared to the lare-bore BP cartridges of the day, they almost exactly paralled "magnums" some 70 years earlier. Smaller bores and much faster. A 8-bore vs a .450 Nitro Express.

The first "Nitro Express" cartridge I believe was the .500/.450 3 1/4" NE and probably created by H&H. Alternately the .450 3 1/4 NE by Rigby? (But please correct me if I am wromg.)

Now my question.

Who owns the term "Nitro Express"? I am not asking for any reason just interest. For example if a manufacturer wanted to bring out a 'new' Nitro Express could they? Perhaps the .400 and .465 H&H Magnums have also Nitro Express designations like the much earlier .375 H&H Magnum?


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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5558 - 10/12/03 04:24 AM

NitroX >>Now my question.

Who owns the term "Nitro Express"? I am not asking for any reason just interest. For example if a manufacturer wanted to bring out a 'new' Nitro Express could they? Perhaps the .400 and .465 H&H Magnums have also Nitro Express designations like the much earlier .375 H&H Magnum?


I would say the phrase has been used in so many contexts that I wouldn't think there would be any problem with useing the moniker on your wildcat!

There was one additional use of the term EXPRESS, was used in black powder rifles as well! That was long before the conversion to smokeless powder. The express versions of many black powder chamberings was the use of a lighter bullet to gain speed, and flatten trajectory. Most of these were singleshots, and double rifles to be used for hunting Roe deer, and stagg in Scotland/England, and Europe! The 500/450 #1 Express is one example of this use! It used 270 gr, and no larger than 365 gr bullets, when most 450 bores used 480 gr bullets! I have an old Westley Richards, so chambered, that was sold out of the London store in 1892! It is a hammerless box lock, with auto/sel ejectors, engraveing, in the maker's case!


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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #5566 - 10/12/03 10:07 AM

Mac

I'm not intending to put the term to use on a wildcat or at least not in the near future.

Such a round would need to be long, tapered and large bore. But is there any need with so many covered already.

I have thought of a modern day example and that is the .500/.416 3 1/4" NE.

My interest is academic. Is the term "owned" by Holland & Holland, Westley Richards, Jeffrey, Rigby or some guild or more likely just a general term such as "magnum" available to anyone?

Interestingly I did a trademark search in the USA before setting up this site with its name and found someone had intended to register the words "Nitro Express" in the category for ammunition but withdrew the application. Turkeys! Of course it wouldn't work. Just a little bit of prior usgae by other parties don't you think?!


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DUGABOY1
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5570 - 10/12/03 11:44 AM

NitroX, I believe Jeffery is the company that first coined the phrase, but I have no idea if it was regestered, I doubt it was! Most things in the Britt gun trade that was kept as propriatary, were not sucessful, and it seems those open to the trade flurished!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Bakes
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5667 - 14/12/03 11:52 PM

So if I were to register it in my name........

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Honey_badger
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: Bakes]
      #5671 - 15/12/03 07:03 AM

The term "Express" was originally applied to high velocity black powder rifles. I think Hollands first used it, in the same way that "Magnum" is used. (By the way "Magnum" isn't new either. Hollands used it to describe .375 as long ago as 1912! It derives from a magnum of wine having twice the capacity as a standard bottle).

When Nitro powders began replacing BP, "Nitro" was added to "Express" to differentiate it from BP Express. I believe Rigby produced the first NE cartridge - the .450 3 1/4"

As far as I know, no one owns the term.

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mickey
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: Bakes]
      #5672 - 15/12/03 07:34 AM

In reply to:

So if I were to register it in my name........



Bakes Express? Nah, doesn't have the same ring.

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Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: Bakes]
      #5677 - 15/12/03 12:08 PM

Bakesey

I think you are too much a modern guy to go for "Nitro Express".

More along a more modern designation is more appropriate.

Perhaps create a cartridge like the

8mm Bakes Ultra Magnum

or

8mm B.U.M. for short.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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400NitroExpress
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5745 - 16/12/03 01:14 PM

The term "express" as applied to rifles originated with James Purdey's "Express Train" rifle, a caplock muzzle-loader, introduced in the 1850s.

The .450 3 1/4" NE, introduced in 1898, is commonly considered the first nitro express. However, some references say the .450/.400 3" Nitro Express was introduced in 1896. Since this cartridge was only introduced after pressure-related extraction problems with the full nitro loadings of the .450/.400 3 1/4" NE, it is obvious that the 3 1/4" predated the 3". However, I don't believe the 1896 date for the 3".
-------------------------------

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #5747 - 16/12/03 01:29 PM

In reply to:

The .450 3 1/4" NE, introduced in 1898, is commonly considered the first nitro express.



Rigby or Holland & Holland or ?


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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400NitroExpress
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5779 - 17/12/03 02:57 AM

Rigby developed the .450 3 1/4" NE.

Much of the conventional wisdom about the history of the British nitros is anecdotal and hard to pin down. For example, the vast majority of references say that the .470 was developed by Lang and introduced in 1907 along with the rest of the .470 group. This information appears to have originated with Taylor. However, it seems to have been Rigby that delivered the first .470 rifle in March, 1900 and it is more likely that they developed the cartridge.
----------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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iqbal
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Re: "Nitro Express" - why? [Re: NitroX]
      #5780 - 17/12/03 03:04 AM

Near the end of the 18th century, the first smokeless gun powder was invented. In 1898, John Rigby, a noted London gun maker, took a popular deer hunting cartridge of the day to experiment with this new powder. John Rigby removed the 480 grain bullet, tipped the black powder out, and replaced it with the new smokeless powder. The result was stunning. A deer hunting rifle became an Elephant rifle in one stroke. The name NITRO EXPRESS appeared from this first experiment in 1898. The new smokeless powder came from a nitro base.

At the same time, British Rail introduced a new train called the "Express Train". It too was a revolution. The papers were full of "Express Train" speed records. The new rifle was named the "Nitro Expess Train Rifle". After a few years, the train rifle part was dropped leaving "Nitro express". It is the heavy double rifles and cartridges developed by the English Gun Trade to stop the charge of dangerous game in Africa we call NITRO EXPRESS today

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