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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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FrankMartinez
.300 member


Reged: 20/08/04
Posts: 111
Loc: The real Northern CA, USA
Re value 303 double
      #57344 - 19/05/06 12:14 AM

I have been offered to purchase a wonderful 303 British double. It has Army Navy stamp and looks to have been re-blued professionally some time ago. Al else looks to be in fine condition and the bore is in good condition. I am wondering if a ballpark value can be given so I have a starting point to go by? I could not take photos but will do so if that is the only way to do so. Is there a link available for such a thing?
Thanks for the direction.
Frank

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57350 - 19/05/06 02:01 AM

Frank:

There are too many variables. Why don't you send it to J. J. and let him check it out and tell you what he thinks it's worth?

Is this a boxlock? Most of these from Army & Navy are Webley products, but by no means all. They used a number of suppliers. Most British .303 doubles are rather old as the .303 was largely supplanted in doubles shortly after 1900. Most also have Metford rifling. Depending on numerous variables, a boxlock .303 could be worth $7-14K. Pictures would help a lot. You can email them to Rusty and he can post them for you.

If it is a Webley product, it will have Webley's number on the barrels somewhere - either on the short rib (between the flats and the fore-end loop) or on the fore-end loop itself. This number won't match the A & N number. If you can get me either number, I can give you a rough idea of date.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40702
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57351 - 19/05/06 03:58 AM

In reply to:

I could not take photos but will do so if that is the only way to do so. Is there a link available for such a thing?



Send the digital photos to me using this address:

Photos AT NitroExpress.com substitute the AT for a @ and remove the spaces.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: NitroX]
      #57366 - 19/05/06 11:30 AM

Frank

Not nearly enough information. Pictures would be a great starting point though.

When the rifle was reblued was the engraving re cut or polished?

Recoil pad?

Any rust pitting?

How does it shoot? most 303's shoot the 215 grain bullet and you will not find any ready made. Does the owner have a load?

I have a Watson Bros. in 303.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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FrankMartinez
.300 member


Reged: 20/08/04
Posts: 111
Loc: The real Northern CA, USA
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: mickey]
      #57368 - 19/05/06 12:37 PM

Thank you for the replies.
I will be taking photos and posting them as soon as I can.
Yes it does have Metford rifleing which appears as a rounded or oval with maybe a gain twist? I will need to slug the bore to know but that is what it looks like.
The reblue looks pretty good but the minor engraving on the box itself is rubbed nearly off and is very shiny. I will look for more details when I get it in my hands again.
It has an inexpensive pad on it but I have a Silvers that will fit to replace it. None of the engraving was re-cut and in fact If it is not a high value gun I may have it polished and engraved by a local metalsmith friend of mine.
I will be checking with the owner this weekend to see if he has a price he needs to get.
Frank

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FrankMartinez
.300 member


Reged: 20/08/04
Posts: 111
Loc: The real Northern CA, USA
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57529 - 22/05/06 08:28 AM

Here are some photos of the .303 I am looking at. You can see the separation from the stock to action. It is loose and was repaired at one time. I think I would have new wood put on anyway as this is probably not a super collectible.
I wonder about the engraving which was pretty full coverage at one time but pretty worn now. I really like the feel and just need a little help with a price.
Click on photo to enlarge.
Thank you vor the help.
Frank

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57530 - 22/05/06 08:46 AM

Is the action tight? Looks like some rust on the water table.

The wood needs to be replaced. Figure minimum $3000 for stocking and wood.

It would be expensive to have the engraving brought back.

If it doesn't shoot than add in another US$500 for regulation.

I've seen better for under US$6000. I would offer $3000.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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FrankMartinez
.300 member


Reged: 20/08/04
Posts: 111
Loc: The real Northern CA, USA
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: mickey]
      #57534 - 22/05/06 10:12 AM

Thanks Mickey.
The action is tight and the bore is pretty clean.
There may have been some light rust but no pitting or heavy scale.
What do you think about polishing the engraving and have new engraving done?
Frank

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57535 - 22/05/06 10:23 AM

Frank

To be honest if you do all the work and pay an engraver you will have much more into it than it will be worth. In that instance, just take $10000 and buy one someone else has over spent to fix up.

If you buy it right and do the minimum, plain wood, live with the action, work up a good load, you will have a great hunting rifle for a long time.

It won't be the spiffiest rifle in town but you will have a nice rifle that was bought at a reasonable price.

Put your money where it will do the most good.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Re value 303 double [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #57536 - 22/05/06 10:24 AM

Well, it isn't quite as old as I thought it would be. 1902 won't miss it by more than a year either way.

This is a Webley A & W C 1st Model with intercepting sears. The Webley & Scott Trade Mark is still clearly visible on the flats. The use of this mark seems to have been discontinued just a bit later. This gun was originally a best grade boxlock of excellent quality. If you want to see what it looked like when new, go over to the Double Rifle Photos and Archive Forum, and view CptCurl's string on his G. Gibbs .450 3 1/4" NE. Same model, just built for a different retailer, and of course, in a different caliber. The .303 is early enough to have shoe lump barrels, while Curls .450 is chopper lump. These two guns are 3-4 years apart.

Yeah, the wood is toast. It was originally stocked with panels and drop points. Checkering and points are gone, and the remaining panels are vestigal. The engraving is so worn in places that I have to wonder if it could be rechased at all. The floor plate appears to be sprung. The guard bow has been smashed out of shape at one time, or is a poor replacement. They never had that shape.

A fellow I know just bought a very similar Webley built double in .450/.400. It needs restocking too, and is slightly off face. It has a minor pitting issue on the action that will need to be resolved, but isn't in an engraved area, yet won't be cheap to fix. Very similar engraving that is in great shape. It has excellent bores. Overall, it's in much better condition than that .303. Price was a little over $4K, which I considered fair. That .303 needs a lot more work. As long as the bores are good, I'd think $1000 to $2000.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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