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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Winchester Grand European
      #56369 - 04/05/06 10:33 AM

I found a nice Winchester double
in 257 Roberts. Any one with
experience with these rifles.

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #56402 - 04/05/06 07:04 PM

Sure, what would you like to know?

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #56412 - 05/05/06 12:45 AM

Had a 30-06 what would you like to know.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: zimhunter]
      #56433 - 05/05/06 05:21 AM

In reply to:

Had a 30-06 what would you like to know.




Alan or Zimhunter , I'm not K80, but I'd like to know if either of you know if these rifle's barrels are soft soldered, or silver brazed?

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #56440 - 05/05/06 06:23 AM

Very tempting isn't it. Hope you buy it --- that would save me some $$$. If it was a SxS, it would be mine! Good luck and lets us know how it shoots!

--------------------
Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: AzGuy]
      #56445 - 05/05/06 10:09 AM

Are they accurate? I have never
seen one that was shot much.
I know it is the 101 action and
they have been around for a while.
Do they regulate well out of the
box or will it be a labor to find
a load?
What questions would you have
if you did not know the rifle.

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #56466 - 05/05/06 05:23 PM

In reply to:

Alan or Zimhunter , I'm not K80, but I'd like to know if either of you know if these rifle's barrels are soft soldered, or silver brazed?



Mac,
They are silver brazed.
Don't let anyone tell you they cannot be re-regulated though.
Darwin gunsmith Vic Pedersen has re-regulated quite a few of these and I've done a couple myself.
It's a little tricky, but can be done.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #56467 - 05/05/06 06:24 PM

K80,
The individual barrel accuracy is usually very good with these rifles and good to excellant individual barrel groups are the norm.
The major problem is that these rifles were jig regulated and many won't shoot the two barrel grougs together.
Some shoot ok, and the occasional 9.3 x 74 will shoot well enough to not require re- regulating.
Many will need to be re-regulated however, and you really need to testfire the rifle before buying.
The build quality is very good, the ejectors (if fitted) work very well and the QD scope system (EAW) works very well also.
Triggers are usually a tad on the heavy side but can be reworked.
I've been shooting one of these in 7x65R for quite a few years.
I love the rifle and have killed a lot of game with it.
I could tell you a lot more if you need to know.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: 4seventy]
      #56468 - 05/05/06 06:55 PM


I would totally agree with what 4seventy says including comments re build quality etc.

Most of the ones I know down here have been re regulated and shoot great now
and if the one you are looking at doesn't shoot, the barrel groups will probably be
good but get it reregulated and you will throroughly enjoy it.

500 Nitro

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Otto
.300 member


Reged: 15/09/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: 500Nitro]
      #56471 - 05/05/06 10:22 PM

I have an extractor model in 30-06. Guess I'm lucky since my rifle shoots sub 2MOA groups with both barrels with 180 gr factory ammo, or close equivalent handloads. Trigger isn't the best but acceptable. It's a bit heavy for an '06 and I'd guess it would be a perfect 9.3x74...257 may be way heavy.

Otto

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: 4seventy]
      #56484 - 06/05/06 12:58 AM

In reply to:

Mac,
They are silver brazed.
Don't let anyone tell you they cannot be re-regulated though.
Darwin gunsmith Vic Pedersen has re-regulated quite a few of these and I've done a couple myself.
It's a little tricky, but can be done.




4seventy I have one of these rifles chambered for 9.3X74R, with ejectors, and scope mounts. The individual barrel groups are in the MOA @ 100 yds. The problem is the bottom barrel shoots 5" to the right of point of aim, and the top barrel shoots 5" to the left of point of aim, both at exactly the same elevation. When one looks at the muzzle end, with the rifle held perfectly vertical, you can see the need with the naked eye! The bottom barrel is pointing to the right, and the top barrel is pointing to the left. They need tweeking to place one over the other only.
I re-regulate S/S doubles all the time, but they are soldered with softer solder than silver, in most cases. If the barrel are not off much, I heat the solder from the inside with a fixture I made which utilizes two heated bore size rods inserted in the muzzles about 5", and simply twist to line the barrels up. This usually doesn't even damage the blueing, and works like a charm in most cases, if convergence is OK! I've used this method to re-regulate barrels on old doubles (S/S) where because of wear, one barrel shoots lower than the other, which is the same condition on the O/U, shooting right, and left! Usually takes about 20 minutes to complete!

The heat would be higher with silver, but would this method still work on the barrels that are silver soldered? I have been tempted to do this on my Grand Europian! It is a very nice rifle, and would make a fine deer, and elk rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #56486 - 06/05/06 01:21 AM

Mediocre accuracy with my 30-06. Didn't shoot it much and only tried factory loads. So I really didn't give it much chance. Individual barrels shot under 2" with about a 4 " spread between barrels. If I remember it was upper high to right and lower low and to left. Seems like the ammo was Frontier with 150gr. Some old leftover stuff. Liked the gun just didn't really have a use for it.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #56505 - 06/05/06 09:35 AM

In reply to:

The heat would be higher with silver, but would this method still work on the barrels that are silver soldered?



Mac,
No it will not work.
The process involved to re-regulate these rifles is different to soft soldered doubles.
What ever you do, don't go applying tons of heat to try and melt the braze or you will very likely stuff the barrels completely.
There is a process that works well for re-regulating these rifles and when done properly is almost undetectable.
The job is quite involved and will test the regulators ability to the max!
Some doubles are quite easy to bring the barrel groups together during re-regulation but the Winchester Grand European is not one of them!
At some time I may do a story on how it is done if anyone is interested.
They are a damn good rifle for hunting all sorts of small and medium to large game, but there are a few things which need attention if the rifle is to be used a lot.

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: 4seventy]
      #56508 - 06/05/06 10:16 AM

I would be interested to hear how it is done.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: bulldog563]
      #56605 - 08/05/06 07:23 AM

I would also. Learning is part
of the fun in shooting doubles.

Thanks

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Winchester Grand European [Re: k80]
      #57174 - 15/05/06 07:03 AM

I could use some help understanding the
adjustments on what appear to be EAW
bases and rings. The lever on the base
does not go all the way down with the
ring in place.
I shot it today the first 2 shots were 1
inch apart diagonally left to right.
The next 2 moved 4 inches left ; but
remained 1" apart. Then it went all
over. It sure shot like scope or mounts
are loose.

Thanks

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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