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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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DBBill
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Reged: 25/05/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Southern California, USA
Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles???
      #5589 - 11/12/03 07:04 PM

I've gotten the "hots" to buy a double rifle (my first) as a retirement present to myself....I follow the 11th Commandment which is "To thine own self be generous"....this is a "want it" and not a "need it" type purchase. The only use it would probably get on game would be if I finally get a chance to go to Europe and hunt wild boar. Caliber will be 9.3x74R!

I'd like some thoughts on both the Krieghoff Classic and the Blaser Double Rifle from anyone who has shot or owned eithr or both. I like the fact that you can buy a set of 20ga barrels for either one PLUS the fact that both offer a single, non-selective trigger is appealing.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DBBill]
      #5595 - 11/12/03 07:39 PM

DBBill

I like your commandment. Hope you do cool down your "hots' by scratching it.

Here's some pics just for you.
Double of the Day - a bit of controversary

I'll leave the comments to someone who has handled one more than I.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: NitroX]
      #5605 - 12/12/03 05:34 AM

Bill

I have not handled the Blaser but there seems to be alot of dislike for it's looks and mechanical setup. The Krieghoff has both it's detractors and proponents over the safety/cocking arrangement.

Chapuis and Merkel both seem to get good marks and both can be had with shotty barrels, as can almost any other brand. You need to go to SCI or Dallas SC or the Bienfeld show in Vegas and just look and handle all of the different varieties and find one you like. It is too large an investment to accept someones elses view without hands on looking at all of the choices.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DBBill]
      #5608 - 12/12/03 07:51 AM

I agree with your way of reading the Bible! I have handeled both rifles, and they are both double rifles. That is about the limit of the comparison, outside the de-cocking safety!

The things I don't like about the Blazer are the hood over the chambers, that is necessary for the lock up design, but interferes with loading, especially in a hurry! The second thing is the bands around the muzzles makes the rifle look like it was made to be sold in K-Mart. Though I understand it's purpose for regulateing it could have been done better. NOW, the real stinker is the "RUBBER" rib between the barrels, UGGGGGGGGGgggggggggggggly. I have no doubt this rifle will work and shoot well, and live a long time, but it simply has no bay in my vault!

The Krieghoff is another story, and though the De-cocking safe system, is misunderstood by most people, It really is not as accident prone as some think! This system is simply a hammer gun without hammers! What I mean by this is, when the rifle is loaded, and closed, the so-called "SAFETY" de-cocks the hammers (strikers)much the same way a hammer gun has the hammers down till the rifle is needed, then the hammers are cocked. The difference is, this rifle cocks the strikers every time the rifle is broken, the same as any hammerless, and has to be re-cocked only when the SAFETY has been used to make it safe. This opperation takes some pressure on the "SAFETY", but can be used properly with a little practice.

The bottom line, for me, is between the two you mention my choice the Krieghoff! That however is a personal thing!

Your choice of chambering (9.3X74R)for what you want a double rifle for, is a perfect one, IMO! Though I like double triggers, on a non-dangerous game double a single trigger isn't a real drawback. It does, however, take away the real purpose of a double rifle, the completely indipendant pair of rifles on the same stock, if it breaks. With two triggers, you still have single shot, with the single trigger you have an 8 lb club.

As Mick says there are the Cahpuis, and the Merkel in your choice of chambering, as well, and both can be had with a pair o 20 ga barrels, but I don't know about single trigger. One thing the Merkel has is, it is available with a set of "CAPE GUN" barrels, with the 9.3X74R barrel on the right, and a 20ga barrel on the left.

I have a Merkel 140E 9.3X74R, and I'm going to have a set of Cape barrels made for mine!

You are the one buying the double rifle, so get the one YOU like the best! Any double rifle is better than not haveing one at all!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #5615 - 12/12/03 12:04 PM

Krieghoffs also have a Cape Gun option.

I know where you are coming from with the single trigger idea. Except I am the opposite. I have always used doubles - rifles and shotguns - with two triggers. I simply can't cope with a single trigger and if used a shotgun with a single trigger pull on the trigger guard with for the second shot.

If you're buying a 9,3 and you want a single trigger - go for it.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DBBill]
      #5617 - 12/12/03 02:33 PM

My first post here (but some like Mickey and Duggaboy might remember me from Huntchat way back),

I second the recomendation on Chapuis or Merkel. I've got a Chapuis 9.3x74r. Great guns shoots very well, and manages to regulate well with a fair ammount of bullets weights and with a scope and without which surprised me.

Word of warning: I had a problem with the top lever, apparantly on many of these "factory" doubles sometimes the work inside the boxlock is not finished and apparantly some parts were left sharp and did some internal damage. All fixed now, but I've heard similar things about Merkels and Uggie shotguns, so you might want to have a good double gun smith to take apart the lock and give it a good inspection before using it a lot (might check firing pins for hardness too). I don't know about Sweden or the US, but Chapuis does make them in France with single triggers (non selective) and combination sets (one rifle and one shotgun barrels on a SxS or O/U), so if you want those options.

Heard great things about Heym's doubles, would go that route for the money rather than Krieghoff.

Just my 2c


--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #5619 - 12/12/03 04:13 PM

In reply to:

The Krieghoff is another story, and though the De-cocking safe system, is misunderstood by most people, It really is not as accident prone as some think! This system is simply a hammer gun without hammers! What I mean by this is, when the rifle is loaded, and closed, the so-called "SAFETY" de-cocks the hammers (strikers)much the same way a hammer gun has the hammers down till the rifle is needed, then the hammers are cocked. The difference is, this rifle cocks the strikers every time the rifle is broken, the same as any hammerless, and has to be re-cocked only when the SAFETY has been used to make it safe. This opperation takes some pressure on the "SAFETY", but can be used properly with a little practice.





Mac, I may be wrong on this, and by all means let me know if I am, but my understanding of the Krieghoff de-cocking system is a little different.

The old hammer guns are de-cocked by actually releasing and lowering the hammer, which also releases some/most of the hammer spring pressure.
I believe the Krieghoff is decocked by releasing the compression of the hammer (tumbler) coilsprings. (mainsprings)
During this "decocking" the hammers or tumblers remain in the fully cocked position and are not lowered.
It is actually only the mainsprings which have been released from compression and the tumblers fully cocked position remains the same.

Also I think there is a major difference between a hammerless double and a Krieghoff when the rifles are opened or broken.

A basic hammerless gun will cock both tumblers and similtaniously compress both mainsprings "every time" when the gun is opened fully, REGARDLESS of the position of the safety. (presuming that everything is operating normally)

The Krieghoff will NOT do this every time and will only cock both the tumblers and mainsprings IF the "safety" is in the forward (fire) position.
If the "safety" is in the safe or rearward position the mainsprings will NOT be compressed or "cocked", and in effect even though the gun has just been opened and closed the Krieghoff is actually still in an "uncocked" state, and will remain so untill the cocking slide or safety is pushed forward.





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4seventy
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: Chasseur]
      #5621 - 12/12/03 04:21 PM

Chasseur,
Welcome and good to have you here.
That is very good advise regarding getting a new (or old) double a good check over by a competant gunsmith who knows doubles.


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DBBill]
      #5622 - 12/12/03 04:37 PM

DBBill
The 9,3x74R is an excellent calibre. I have been using my Chapuis double for the past 5 years. I have taken several deer and wild pigs, as well as 5 coyotes, a bobcat, several turkeys and a black bear. I suggest you look at several different brands and pick the one you like the best.
Besure and have Quick Detach scope mounts fitted. A scope really adds to the "huntability" of your double.


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: 4seventy]
      #5630 - 13/12/03 07:26 AM

4seventy, you are absolutely correct on all counts! What I meant was, when a hunter fires the rifle in a fight, it will be recocked when broken, and does not have to be recocked manually.

As you say, if the rifle is broken WITHOUT fireing, or pushing the "SAFETY" forward, then it is not recocked on opening. It is of little conceren to the shooter if the strikers are lowered, or the spring pressure is relieved, the fact is the rifle is de-cocked! The place where this system is safer that a conventional hammerless double is when the conventionl double is placed ON SAFE, the internal hammers are only blocked,and still under pressure, but are fully cocked, When the Krieghoff is place ON SAFE the rifle is un-cocked, because the spring pressure is relieved. In this state, the Krieghoff is safer that the conventional double , IMO!

Why I said the system was misunderstood is, because everyone seems to think, mistakenly, when shot 1, and 2 are fired, it is then necessary to re-cock with the safety after reloading the chambers, before you can fire shot three, and four! This isn't the case, because the SAFETY is in the forward position before the 1st, and 2nd shots can be fired, and the rifle is re-cocked on opening.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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4seventy
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #5631 - 13/12/03 09:15 AM

Mac
Yes, I must say that I do like the idea of being able to carry a double with chambers loaded but with the action in an uncocked state.
Being used to a conventional safety and then using the Krieghoff system would take a fair amount of practice to become proficient I would think though.

I have at this stage not had the chance to handle a Krieghoff with the decocking slide.
How far does the slide actually move from safe to the fully cocked position and how difficult is this to achieve as the gun is brought to the shoulder?
I doubt that I would ever want to buy one but would be interested to know how well the system works in the field.


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Thoughs about Blaser & Krieghoff double rifles??? [Re: 4seventy]
      #5649 - 14/12/03 05:15 AM

I too like the idea of the rifle being un-cocked when carried with the chambers loaded. I have several Hammer doubles, and I love hunting with them because of being able to carry them loaded without worry about shooting someone!

I agree with you about useing two or three different systems, and the problem of forgetting which is in your hands at any one time! I haven't had a problem with this, however, because I never take two types on the same hunt, and i usually practice quite a bit with the rifle I intend useing before the hunt. This practice, by the time the hunt starts, has made me do things automaticly, so isn't a problem.

The Safety slide on the Krieghoff does move quite far, about a full inch, and requires some effort, but the button is quite large, and the whole first pad of the thumb can be used. This is only done one time, however, at the bigining of the action, and takes less time to work than to cock both hammers on a hammer double!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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