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RobertD
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
What are the most common calibers in doubles today
      #5396 - 04/12/03 05:28 PM

In reading many of these posts regarding double rifles, folks have made references regarding the availablility of ammo in certain calibers. For example, it seems that 375 Flanged is not too common, but 9.3x74R is much more common.

This brings up the question: which calibers are most common for purchasing loaded ammo? I am speaking in terms of traditional rimmed double rifle ammo larger than 35 caliber. I am not speaking of belted or rimless cartridges, as that stuff really is quite common.

RobertD



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RLI
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: RobertD]
      #5397 - 04/12/03 05:37 PM

The most common in rimmed cartrdges would be .470 NE
I have seen a few in .375 H&H and .458 Win but these are belted cases.
RLI

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: RobertD]
      #5398 - 04/12/03 06:40 PM

With respect to shooters within CONUS:

That you can walk into your average gun store and find on the shelf - none.

That you can order easily from numerous sources and expect to reliably find it in stock - .470 and 9.3X74R.

That you can order from fewer sources and with possible stock-out aggravation - pretty much all of them.

Were I shopping for another double rifle, I wouldn't hesitate to buy, or order if I was having one built, a .375 Flanged Magnum, .360 No. 2, .476 Westley Richards, etc., because I simply can't see availability of factory ammunition as even the tiniest of issues. I've hunted with double rifles for years and, as birds of a feather flock together, I know a lot of other guys that do so as well. Other than to buy one or two five-round packets out of curiousity or for a laugh, none of the guys I know actually use the stuff, especially in the field. While a lot of factory ammo is used in the field in bolt rifles, I would think very little is used in doubles - handloads are the norm.
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470Nitro
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: RobertD]
      #5400 - 04/12/03 08:14 PM

In Spain (and I think in whole Europe) the 90% of doubles used for hunting are in 9.3x74R. May be that's why we don't need something bigger .

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mickey
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: 470Nitro]
      #5404 - 05/12/03 02:55 AM

I'll agree with the 470 and 9.3x74R also. There are a couple of shps around here where you can buy both off the shelf but I agree with 400nitro that the vast majority of doubles shoot handloads.

I also agree that, to me, caliber is not an issue when buying something and I tend to stay away from 470s becaused of the additional cost that caliber brings. I would guess that you would pay a 2-5 thousand dollar premium for a 470 over say a 450#2 of equal condition.



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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: mickey]
      #5467 - 07/12/03 09:46 AM

QUOTE>> MICKEY<< "I'll agree with the 470 and 9.3x74R also. There are a couple of shps around here where you can buy both off the shelf but I agree with 400 nitro that the vast majority of doubles shoot handloads.

I also agree that, to me, caliber is not an issue when buying something and I tend to stay away from 470s becaused of the additional cost that caliber brings. I would guess that you would pay a 2-5 thousand dollar premium for a 470 over say a 450#2 of equal condition."<<UNQUOTE

I agree with the above 100%! Though the 470NE will bring a premium on the re-sale, I find most who own large chamberings in double rifles, seldom re-sell them anyway!

I would say world wide, in New doubles, both O/U, and S/S 9.3X74R would be the most made. In the USA, I think most new doubles bought would be 470NE, simply because of Federal's factory ammo. As Nitro 400 says, this doesn't make sense, because most will load for their rifles anyway!

Like Mickey, I try to stay away from the 470NE rifles, and for the same reason. I was buying 450/400 3", and 3.25" while everyone else was clammering for the 470NEs, and paying 2/3rds as much, and killing Buffalo just as dead as any 470NE ever made! Trouble is, I talk too much, and made too many people aware of the 450/400's value, and priceing. Now they are getting hard to find, and the prices have gone through the roof. The 450/400 3" is a good choice in the used double, it is simply that, this cartridge was never offered in a black powder version, so any rifle you buy in that chambering, will be NITRO PROOFED! Not so with the 450/400 3.25", and the 3.25" chamber cannot be re-chambered to the 3" chamber, without sleeving!

The three chamberings that are sold most in New rifles here, are 470NE, 500NE, 9.3X74R, and recently the 500/416K! The 9.3X74R are sold a lot because of price, and their usefulness in North America. I personally like the 450/400 3", or 450#2 Nitro Express, as I do any of the old rimmed .458 chamberings. I, however, have a little 9.3X74R, and it becomes dearer every day!




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"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

Edited by DUGABOY1 (07/12/03 09:55 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #5478 - 07/12/03 03:01 PM

I wonder. If you had the choice between a smaller medium bore such as a 8x60R, .318, 7x65R etc as opposed to a 9.3x74R (or very similar .360, .375R), purely for use on medium game such as deer etc - which would you go for?



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mickey
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: NitroX]
      #5482 - 07/12/03 03:44 PM

Nitro

I think that the trajectory of the 9.3 is about optimum for a Double. Even at 3"/100 yards that is only 200-250 yard accuracy. The flatter shooters wouldn't be anymore accurate, even with a scope.

All the ones you mentioned would be more than adequate at those ranges and would be fun to use. I have a 303 but it is open sights and past 100 yards I need a scope now so it sits more than it deserves.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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docEE
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Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: NitroX]
      #5483 - 07/12/03 03:47 PM

I would love to have a shop reasonable close where I could even browse at doubles. I have never seen a 450/400 of any length or a 450NE. I have also never seen a 9.3x74R, although I was mightily tempted when I saw a left-handed one listed in the now-defunct Cape Outfitters flyer a few years back. The only double rifle I have ever laid eyes on in a store was a used 470NE in a Cabela's gun room about 5 years ago. Do you guys all have stores down the block that display these things?

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mickey
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: docEE]
      #5485 - 07/12/03 04:06 PM

docEE

Go to the the Dallas or SCI Conventions and you will see bunches. If you are going to buy a used oew make sure you get a minimum of a 5 day inspection period and have it looked at by a 'competent' smith.

I think most of the posters here who speak with knowledge have at least one of their own to play with.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: mickey]
      #5487 - 07/12/03 06:24 PM

.470 prices are no problem in the new "affordable" doubles if you like them, but they're not my cup of tea. With respect to the second-hand English rifles though, I agree - they won't do anything that the others in the .450/.470 group won't except take a bigger bite out of your wallet. Back when I first started shopping, conventional wisdom was that if you actually wanted to shoot your double rifle, it needed to be a .470. This was only because stocks of the then discontinued Kynoch in that caliber were still somewhat available and the prices of .470 rifles reflected such. I ignored that dreary counsel, I didn't want a .470 anyway. The price premium is still there today, but now it is only due to senseless hype. Ammo and components are available for the others and there is no reason to pay extra for a good rifle just because it happens to be a .470.

As to the smaller calibers for ordinary game, they can all be put to good use. The .303 is quite useful in a double and quite a few were built. I prefer the flexibility of the mediums and a number of good ones get overlooked. The .333 Flanged and the grand .360 No. 2 have always been there and can work for DG if need be. The .400/.350, .350 No. 2 and .400/.360 Purdey are all good. All three share the same case which is easily formed from 9.3X74R and bullet selection is excellent. Built on caliber-appropriate frames (which, unfortunately, some were not) these mediums are magic wands. If you haven't used one for the kind of hunting Nitro referred to, you don't know what you're missing. I use a .400/.360 for whitetail, pigs, elk, black bear, etc., and it keeps my freezers full. Gonna smack a pig with it next weekend. See you there, Mac.
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RobertD
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Reged: 16/11/03
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Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: RobertD]
      #5490 - 07/12/03 08:25 PM

Since I posted that first question the other day, I had the opportunity to visit Seracy firearms in Boron, CA. I did get to test fire a couple of his doubles in 500 NE and 470 NE. I linked up with a good friend of mine and did purchase one of his doubles in 500 NE.

Butch Searcy did say some interesting things. First, with respect to ammo here in the USA, everything is available. Maybe not stocked at WalMart, but you can get it mail order from multiple sources and handloading anything is wide open.

Outside of the USA, it can be a bit more difficult. But he did say that the 9.3x74R and the 470 NE are probably the most common and easily obtainable calibers in factory loadings.

I liked Butch Searcy, he is very knowledgeable without being pompus or obnoxious. He is a very easy guy to talk with and is very straight forward.

Interestingly, when I fired his 470 NE and his 500 NE, I believe they have less felt recoil than full power loads in my CZ550 / 416 Rigby or my 458 Win Mag built on a VZ24 Mauser. Yeah, the 500 NE does weigh a touch more, but not much. I think it was the stock design and the fit, but that is only a guess.

This link is his website. Along with pictures and prices, he also has factory ammo for sale and prices are listed there as well.

http://www.searcyent.com/

RobertD

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DUGABOY1
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Re: What are the most common calibers in doubles today [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #5495 - 08/12/03 01:28 AM

I use a .400/.360 for whitetail, pigs, elk, black bear, etc., and it keeps my freezers full. Gonna smack a pig with it next weekend. See you there, Mac.


SOUEEEEEEEEEE, piggy pig!

I'll be there with bells on Mark! Are you thinking about that Eland cow, for the freezer?

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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