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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Steyr
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Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 1
IMR 4198 as BP substitute?
      #5383 - 04/12/03 05:48 AM

In a recent Seyfried article, Ross substitutes IMR 4198 for BP, using a 40% charge.
In other words, 70g BP would become ~28g of 4198.
This was OK for an Express rifle in the article, but would it be safe to do this in a case like the .577 Snider ?

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docEE
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Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: IMR 4198 as BP substitute? [Re: Steyr]
      #5388 - 04/12/03 10:32 AM

I would NEVER start such experimentation. Ross has lived and breathed some of these rifles for a long time and perhaps he has references that revealed earlier work on the subject... but I would NOT draw any general conclusions about making such loads in other guns. XXXXXXXX (now see the next thread on the 450 load where Dugaboy gives approval for this as a general practice) XXXXXXX

Edited by docEE (04/12/03 10:36 AM)

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: IMR 4198 as BP substitute? [Re: Steyr]
      #5394 - 04/12/03 03:10 PM

Steyr:

Check Double Gun Journal, Volumn 10, Issue 2, (Summer, 1999), Seyfried's "Romancing the Snider". If you don't have access to it, the short answer to your question is yes. He did so, with exactly the load you mentioned (28 grains 4198, a case full of polyester fiber and a 480 grain bullet) and it worked. However, the .577 Snider in question was a Purdey double and since that load produced under 1000 fps instead of the normal 1200 fps, it didn't regulate. He increased the charge, switched to magnum primers and got good results, but decided that he was not comfortable with increasing the 4198 charge that much. He switched to 25 grains IMR 4759, with the same filler and bullet, and got perfect results. The rifle had damascus barrels btw.


Doc:

Mac didn't say that, he was referring to express rifles specifically, which the Snider is not. Your point is well taken though. Blazing such trails is risky and isn't for nimrods. Best to leave it to folks like Seyfried. Unfortunately, even after the experimentation has been done and the results published, there are always the 10% that don't get the word, like those who shoot homogenous solids in double rifles.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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docEE
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Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Re: IMR 4198 as BP substitute? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #5479 - 07/12/03 03:29 PM

Found 2 articles by Seifried. July-August 2000 Rifle Magazine on loading the 450 Express says 4198 for black powder express rifles is like RL-15 for Nitro Expresses in that you can use them across the spectrum of cartridges... ALWAYS with dacron filler. His October-November Handloader magazine article on loading the 500 Express says 40-46% of the original BP weight, standard primers and dacron filler. His "Powder Keg" collumn in the April-May 2001 Handloader magazine says mentions the 4198 powder in response to a reader's question, but he did not clarify the ratio as he did in the articles. So it seems this is something that has some history to it that I had not noticed when I first clipped the articles.

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