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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Interarms bolt guns, Quality?
      #52507 - 16/03/06 01:51 AM

Has anyone here had experience with the Interarms bolt guns?
I've been offered an express rifle in .416taylor in trade along with some other things.
I just haven't heard much about the Interarms rifles.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Jake
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: tinker]
      #52514 - 16/03/06 03:19 AM

Better jump on this one. They are good action and I suggest you look up to see what they're selling for in the Blue Book. Usually they're undervalued but to a Mauser guy, IMO, especially since you have to consider the added cost of alteration of the action, you'd have a keeper there if it's not beat to death. If you don't have a Blue Book, BTW,which is only a general indicator, go to a gun shop or pawn shop and take a look. The caliber you're negotiating is a great one as well.

Some purests-folks think they're Intertarms are an inexpensive knock off and they are I guess but Whitworths are in the same genre. If you can send me a photo and I'll tell you more about it. Also this forum is a library of knowledge, different opinions, so in the end go with your gut feeling. It's seldom wrong.


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tinker
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: Jake]
      #52519 - 16/03/06 04:02 AM

Thanks Jake-

I'll be getting out today to take a second look at it.
I've already handled the rifle. It's set up as a handy express gun, with good sights and qd scope mounts.
It felt right in my hands, pointed well, and seemed to have been fairly well kept. It's not very often that I warm up to bolt guns, I'm just not much of a bolt gun guy -- but this rifle got my attention and there stands to be a *good in both directions* element to this deal if things are as they seem.

I'll see what I can do about photos too, if I get something I'll just post to the thread here for all to see.


thanks for the note

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DoubleD
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: tinker]
      #52531 - 16/03/06 07:23 AM

My guess is that is a Commercial Mauser action made by Zastava and imported by Interarms as an action and then built into a full rifle by a Gunsmith.

The Taylor I don't think was a ever chambered and sold by Interarms. You can look at the marking particulary on the barrel and you should be able to tell. Are the Factory roll engraved or hand stamped?

Just up the road from you is Susanville and Lassen Community College. They have/had a Gunsmithing course and the Interarms actions were a favorite action for classroom projects.

I have a 404 Express by FNB which I believe is an early BJ Express rifle. It predates the 416 Chatfield-Taylor. There is just some minor differences between the BJ Express and the Taylor. The BJ is just a hair bigger in the body at shoulder diameter, thus being less tapered than the Taylor. It is just a hair longer in neck length also. But for all pratical purposes they are the same. I use Taylor load data.

I found for jump shooting Whitetails out of weed patches in Montana wheatfields the 300 gr. Barnes X bullet is awesome. Knock them to the ground right now.

I use 300 WinMag brass. I believe the Taylor uses .458 brass. That brass is short in the neck for the BJ.

I will never get to go after dangerous game with my rifle, that sport being outside my meager budget, but I would use it for that activity given the chance.

If the price is right get the rifle and don't look back!

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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AkMike
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: DoubleD]
      #52538 - 16/03/06 09:20 AM

About 20 yrs ago I bought a Zastava/Interarms barreled action and stocked it for myself. It's one of the best rifles I've ever had. Very accurate!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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4seventy
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: tinker]
      #52540 - 16/03/06 09:37 AM

Tinker,
The Interarms actions were built to a price.
Compared to a genuine FN (which they are copied from) the fit and finish of internal parts is a little rough in places on some of the actions I've looked at.
That said, they seem to hold up well with serious use and seem to function well.
The 416 Taylor has achieved quite a good reputation here in Oz among those who have used the cartridge on big game.
So long as the price is right it should be a good thing.


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luv2safari
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: 4seventy]
      #52579 - 16/03/06 03:07 PM

We sold a bunch of them when they first hit the US market and never got one back with a problem. I missed my 375 MK X Alaskan enough to buy it back from my friend several days ago. They ain't Bond Street, but they are good strong and accurate rifles. I wish I had held on to my Whitworth configuration. They are just an FN, if you don't look too close...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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hoppdoc
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: tinker]
      #52584 - 16/03/06 04:34 PM

I have an interarms action on a semi-custom 416 Rem by Dave Gentry.

Good action and better the more you work and use it.

I like it!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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macleod470
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Re: Interarms bolt guns, Quality? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #52612 - 17/03/06 01:29 AM

My dad has a interarms with a mannlicher stock. It's not a big caliber(.270) but my dad has been using it for as long as I can remember and he's never had a problem with it. On e of his friends also has a mark x in .375 and he absolutely loves the gun. I personally would buy one in a heartbeat.

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tinker
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To all replies [Re: tinker]
      #52613 - 17/03/06 01:50 AM

Thanks to all of you here-

I went back and looked at the 416 again.
While kicking it's tires, we dug around for what other big bore bolt guns were there and found a Whitworth Express *brand new* in .458
The .416 had been set up with a very heavy contour barrel and had been bead blasted before blacking. The bolt face was well worn and just a tad peened and pitted.
Felt good, but after a long look at the pair I went with the .458 -- which felt better and hadn't been worn in any way at all.
I already have .458 dies and my Tolley runs .458 bullets, there are also many more bullets out there for the bigger bore.


The .458 is set up in the safari grade trim with shadowline cheekpiece and ebony forend, good wood and a checkering pattern that I can live with, and the three blade express rear/hooded front sights. This rifle didn't have a set of rings or bases fitted, I was going to ditch the mounts and glass on the .416 anyway. I've been picking around lately hoping to find a decent big bore bolt gun that I wouldn't have to spend a load of cash on, this rifle seems as if it'll do fine. I can run it with fun loads out on the ranch without having to spend real money on bullets too.

This all and I left with a pocket full of hundred dollar bills to boot, and the other guy was happy with his end of the deal.
Not such a bad afternoon after all.











--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by CptCurl (21/11/10 11:57 PM)


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4seventy
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Re: To all replies [Re: tinker]
      #52672 - 17/03/06 06:01 PM

In reply to:

Not such a bad afternoon after all.




Tinker,
Well done!
The Whitworth Express rifles are good value for money for sure!
I,m doing some research on these at the moment and there is a thread in the Big Bore section.
I've learned quite a lot about these guns lately.
Just for my own interest, would you mind letting me know what the first digit in the serial number is.
The number representing the hunded thousand is the one.
1 for 1XX,XXX 2 for 2XX,XXX etc.
Thanks.


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tinker
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Re: To all replies [Re: 4seventy]
      #52689 - 18/03/06 03:15 AM

Hey there 4seventy-

I've done numerous rigorous shake-downs of the web for information on these too. I've seen what's likely most or all of your web-present conversations on the line of rifles and appreciate your tenacity on the search.

My gun's a B30.... which has me thinking it's a Manchester-assembled gun as I've seen guns noted as being Manchester guns in the mid-high 2's that were fitted out nearly the same as my gun is. The fellow who had the rifle noted that it'd been in his stock for somewhere around fifteen years. I think he dug it up out of back stock recently while prepping for the big show out in Vegas.
The rifle still has the factory sticky-grease residue in the mag box and on the bolt. The bore is a house of mirrors and the exterior wood finish is 'factory fresh' -- nobody has gone at it with true oil or stain or anything to that nature, all supports the notion that it's what he claims, a brand spanking new Whitworth Express.
Oh, and as another note for you, if I recall this one has the side-plunger magazine floorplate catch instead of the little bumper inside the triggerguard, the 100 yard blade is fixed not folding, and the forward sling swivel stud is in the forend, not on the barrel.
The gun's in his vault at this time as we get to wait for ten days to pick up our hunting rifles out here in California. Don't want to hurry things now do we...

I didn't get a photo of the roll-stamped text on the left side of the barrel and reciever, but for your notice the gun is stamped with 'Whitworth Express' in stylized font on the left side -- I think that's on the barrel, and at the serial number on the right side of the gun there's the somewhat oval-round punchmark near the serial number like I've seen on other .458 Whitworth guns of similar serial number range. Couldn't quite tell what the characters were within the oval either, but I think you know what I'm talking about there. Would that be cz?

I got out to the ranch yesterday to pick up some gear and was handed a packet of unfired brass, ten rounds of 300gr JSP/2400fps loaded ammo, and three boxes of bullets. There are a couple of eucalyptus trees on a hillside that have needed to go, we're thinking that box of 500grFMJ Hornady bullets will do a good job of taking her down.

My plan is to go through the underbelly of the action and do the much recommended bedding and relieving, and double-checking of the recoil lug inletting and bedding before I let go with the heavier bullets and full house loads.
From there it's tree-cutting time! I think the old eucalyptus trees are the only game in the state worthy of the 500grFMJ loads.
This reminds me that I also have a box of 350grSNRN Woodleighs that I'd gotten for the Tolley *and then* realized that they were the tough jacket model designed for the .458WM and not the BPE-friendly thin jacket model, they'll do very nicely in the Whitworth I'm sure...




--Tinker



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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4seventy
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Re: To all replies [Re: tinker]
      #52727 - 18/03/06 09:57 PM

Tinker,
Sounds like you've got everything happening regarding your new toy.
Thanks for the info and I may ask a couple more questions once you have it back home.
The old 458 Win is a good cartridge IMO even though it regularly cops a hard time, especially on the web.
I'm sure you'll enjoy that rifle.



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tinker
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to 4seventy [Re: 4seventy]
      #52747 - 19/03/06 04:29 AM

Go ahead and let me know if there's something else you'd want to hear about the rifle now, I'll likely be back at the shop inside this week to pick up some other things. I can get the action out of the wood etc and get other info if you're interested.

Also, did I hear you say elsewhere something about a 300gr welded core at 2700fps? What primer/powder/bullet/OAL on that one? I'm interested in setting up a lighter bullet load with some zip for the 300yard leaf. Was that load fairly accurate? If so what rifle were you running it through?


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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tinker
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: tinker]
      #52771 - 19/03/06 01:36 PM

470-

Went back to the shop and got some more details for you.
I'm not sure what you'd want to hear, but right off the bat I'll tell you it's definitely a CZ and a Manchester gun -- that's roll engraved on the left side of the reciever. I was wrong about it being engraved with whitworth express on the barrel, it simply states in special font the chambering -- it's the red rubber recoil pad that reads Whitworth.

I have notes of the marks around the underbelly of the reciever and other areas under the wood line, just ask for what you'd want to hear...



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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4seventy
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: tinker]
      #52856 - 20/03/06 04:35 PM

Tinker,
Thanks for that.
Numbers between threaded holes on right side rear bridge would be good.
Also does it have the barrel mounted recoil lug?
Thanks mate.

458 Win Mag 300 grain loads.

Winchester brass
Fed 215 mag primers
Brno 602 custom rifle with 22 1/2" Magnaported barrel.
300 grain Taipan weldcore bullets. (no longer available with weldcores)

Powder AR 2207
(close in buning rate to IMR 4198)

63gn 2371 fps
64gn 2420
65gn 2445

68gn 2535
69gn 2554
70gn 2582
71gn 2638
71.5gn 2661
72gn 2684
72.5gn 2701
No excessive pressure signs whatsoever.
Accuracy was good but you need a strong bullet to survive that sort of velocity.

Shot and recorded on 23rd August 1992.

Edited by 4seventy (20/03/06 05:12 PM)


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tinker
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: 4seventy]
      #52860 - 20/03/06 06:33 PM

Thanks for the load data.
Can you think of a current production 300gr bullet (other than the Barnes X) that's up to the velocity?
I haven't done any kind of research yet as to how much velocity'd be left at three hundred yards with that high MV.
Looks like it's worth a peek...


So, on gunmarks.
The right side of the rear bridge has a four digit number stamped between the sight mount screws -- looks like 0585
Do you think it's a date code?

There is a barrel mounted recoil lug too, I didn't measure the distance from the reciever, but let's say a couple and a half inches or so. The lug itself is a tad crude, the provision for it on the barrel looks good though and I'll likely make a new lug that's a much more precise fit to the recess in the underside of the barrel. The stock definitely will need bedding too, but from the factory there was bedding compound in the stock inletting for the lug. It's all going to get a fresh new outlook on things before I run the rifle.

Other marks that might interest you are for one, MarkX on the left side of the forward bridge, that's between the 'Cal. 458 Win. Mag.' in script on the barrel chamber and 'Alexandria Virginia Interarms Manchester England' flanked by the circle/star stamp to the left and the CZwithin circle logo on the right all together on the left side of the reciever under the bolt/loading/ejection cut.
On the underside of the reciever flat near the forward action bolt hole is a capital letter 'W' and what look to be possibly in smaller characters near it 'LV'
The stock has an underscored 'DR' stamped in the inletted area for the triggerguard between the trigger inletting and the magazine box cut.

I hope that helps you out a bit, at least gives you something to ponder.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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4seventy
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: tinker]
      #52871 - 21/03/06 02:25 AM

Tinker
As you know the majority of 45 cal 300 grainers are really made for 45/70 velocities so the Barnes X is a good choice for MV of 2700 fps IMO.

Thanks for all those other details on your Whitworth as they all help for sure.
It is pretty easy to tell which Whitworths actually saw British soil during assembly.
More on that at some later time.
I'm still hoping someone out there has one in 7 mm Rem Mag and can supply some details.




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DUGABOY1
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: 4seventy]
      #53325 - 26/03/06 06:35 AM

Gentlemen, Interarms had nothing to do with WHITWORTH EXPRESS rifles other than importing them. True Whitworth Express rifles will have a large oval on top of the reciever ring with WHITWORTH roll stamped in it! These rifles were barreled, finished, and stocked, in Manchester England, and came to the states as complete rifles, and bear English proof marks, on the barrels. The actions are basiclly FN Mausers, and are made on the machines bought from FN by Zestava! The Whitworth rifles are far better fitted, and finished than the INTERARMS Alaskan, Mark X sporting rifle, the Mark X cavalier, and the Mark X Viscount, rifles which were barreled, and stocked in the USA, and, and were left quite rough. The Whitworth African Express rifles were made in Mannchester Engalnd, from 1964 to the end of the importing, stopped because of to war in Bosnia, makeing the Zestava FN Mauser actions no longer available.

After the Actions were no longer available a few barreled actions, and some actions, were bought from Whitworth that were stamped WHITWORTH but the actions were barreled here in some chamberings that Whitworth never chambered in their rifles. These were mostly 7mm Rem Mag, and some in 300 Win Mag. These last two are not made by Whitworth, but made by Interarms on Whitworth stamped actions with American barrels, and wood!
True Whitworth African Express rifles only came in 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag. True Whitworth rifles are worth more than the interarms made rifles. some of the "SPARE PARTS" rifles serve only to confuse the buyer. Both rifles are good rifles, but the non-Whitworth rifles need more care in finishing, and ploishing of the actions, than the Whitworths.

If you want to know when a Whitworth rifle was made, take the rifle out of the stock. Just in front of the bolt handle, there are two screw holes placed there for a reciever sight, there is stamped the Year of manufacture.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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tinker
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #53332 - 26/03/06 10:36 AM

Dugaboy-

Thanks for your notes there. According to what you've said it seems my rifle was made in Manchester, May of 1985
It's stamped Manchester, it's also stamped with the CZ logo.

Any way you cut it, it's a very nicely outfitted and slicked out .458



4Seventy-

I've done a fair bit of homework on what's available in 300gr for the .458 After a talk with one of the guys at Barnes, thier 'original' jacketed JSP will fly nicely from 2500+ FPS down to somewhere in the 1800 FPS range out at three hundred yards. They recommend 64-69gr of Reloader 7
That's with either the original JSP or the pointy 300gr X-bullet. They claim the jacketed lead bullet's up to the velocity, I'll likely start with it for light bullet/extended range workup for the 300yd leaf.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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4seventy
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #53438 - 28/03/06 11:39 AM

In reply to:

The Whitworth African Express rifles were made in Mannchester Engalnd, from 1964




Mac,
I've been doing some research on Whitworth Express rifles and have a thread in the Big Bore forum ,"Whitworth Questions".
I was not aware that these rifles were produced as early as 1964 and have dated their release as 10 years later than this, at (approx) 1974/75.
If you have any info on that '64 date I would be keen to hear about it as well as any info on the stampings on Whitworth Express rifles you own or have examined.
Thanks


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Johnson
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #53447 - 28/03/06 12:47 PM

I have a Whitworth/Interarms chambered in 300 win mag. According to the date stamp it was made on Nov.'77. Sights and barrel band are soldered on, and has great wood. On the barrel it reads Whitworth Rifle Company Manchester, England.
It does have british proof marks on the barrel and reciever.
I had the 3pos safety installed.







Johnson

Great forum too, been lurking for a long time!




nitroexpress.info/ezine/CptCurlFiles/MauserForum/tinker/Interarms_quality

Edited by CptCurl (21/11/10 11:59 PM)


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4seventy
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: Johnson]
      #53456 - 28/03/06 01:40 PM

Johnson,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting those photos!
Yes, as we have discussed earlier, your rifle is the real deal true blue Manchester Whitworh Express for sure.
It has all the right stampings to verify it's originality.
Both 7mm Rem mag and 300 Win mag are listed for Whitworth Express rifles in a 1976 Guns Illistrated which I have here.
Your rifle proves that the 300 was definately produced so I just need someone to confirm the 7mm Rem.
The stamped numbers on the right side cannot be accurately relied upon as to the date of assembly IMO.
They do provide an approximate dating however.

Did I mention that I'd be happy to swap stocks with you!
That leftside buttstock grain is sweeeeet!


Edited by 4seventy (28/03/06 03:32 PM)


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tinker
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Re: to 4seventy [Re: 4seventy]
      #53477 - 28/03/06 04:20 PM

No kidding on the wood there...




--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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