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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: Johnson]
#53580 - 29/03/06 07:48 PM

Go work on a farm or ranch for a year, and get an idea of what it is like to work with large animals every day, then state your opinions.

I believe based on the stated opinions that most who have opinions on MS haven't had the experience of working on a farm or ranch or a station and rather have an urban concept of animal behavior.

I still think MS is a lousy bastard who isn't exactly humanein his hunting methods based on his videos.

Richard.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: rgp]
#53584 - 29/03/06 09:50 PM

In reply to:

Surrounded by cows....

Once upon having run a herd of cattle with bulls I know your point. More than one leap over a fence having occurred.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
#53588 - 29/03/06 09:59 PM

MS is quite the showman and obviously a great shot.Should PH's promote themselves in this fashion?

Hope he lives a long life but with his style of hunting--

I don't see any lion attacks advertized.By a previous lion attack video we have seen that is much different regarding attack speed and closure.

Does anyone know if he has provoked a lion charge?
Would that be the worst attack scenario?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: NitroX]
#53601 - 30/03/06 01:24 AM

Certain aspects of this thread remind me of a riddle which goes like this:

Question: When does your brother-in-law become a sonofabitch?

Answer: WHEN HE LEAVES THE ROOM.........

AD

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#53633 - 30/03/06 06:34 AM

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canguk
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Reged: 14/03/06
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Loc: The Great Northeast

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#53646 - 30/03/06 10:42 AM

Did any of the MS bashers present themselves to his face at Reno?
Real men either ignore someone they don't agree with or confront them face to face. They do not take pot shots from a keyboard and this is not Accurate Reloadings Africa Hunting forum.

--------------------
IN GOD WE TRUST !!

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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: canguk]
#53650 - 30/03/06 11:34 AM

I haven't seen anything here that even comes close to MS bashing: certainly nothing like the other forum you mentioned. canguk, people here are entitled to voice their opinions. I'm sorry you have difficulty with that. Just curious where you got your degree in Human Psychology, that qualifies you to make that statement about what real men do and don't do. If I may paraphrase your statement----Real men either shut up or punch somebody out.

It appears to me that you're taking pot shots, the same as those who you're accusing of taking pot shots.

I've met Mark Sullivan and his son, and I have no doubts about his abilities as a PH. On the other hand, I felt that our personalities were such that there could be a real clash, so I chose not to hunt with him. Others obviously find his personality to their liking because he has no shortage of clients. I find his videos entertaining, and exciting.

Now, since our personalities don't mesh, am I supposed to shut up, or just go smack him at next years SCI Convention?

I do agree with you on one thing...you're right about this not being Accurate Reloading.... we're so much better!

Edited by mikeh416Rigby (30/03/06 11:40 AM)

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
#53655 - 30/03/06 12:03 PM

Mike, one thing I'm certain of is that the client and his PH must have the potential to work well together or forget it!

That's another thing that's great about African hunting: There are enough countries and enough safari companies and PHs around to suit just about every client, and personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.........

AD

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rgp
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: canguk]
#54083 - 04/04/06 04:10 PM

In reply to:

Did any of the MS bashers present themselves to his face at Reno?
Real men either ignore someone they don't agree with or confront them face to face. They do not take pot shots from a keyboard and this is not Accurate Reloadings Africa Hunting forum.

Do we have to pay a ton of cash to go to Reno at a specific date and time to have a vaild opinion?

Richard.

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FMA
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Reged: 15/04/06
Posts: 12
Loc: NYC

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#54876 - 15/04/06 06:10 AM

In reply to:

I've enjoyed two safaris with Mark Sullivan, ..., and shooting from the rig has been kept to a minimum.

You killed from the truck?

Edited by FMA (15/04/06 06:13 AM)

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allenday
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: FMA]
#55150 - 19/04/06 01:06 AM

On a few common plainsgame animals, yes we did. That's been the case on every safari I've ever been on, with Sullivan and everyone else. Sometimes you don't have time to bail out of the rig for a proper stalk, and that's just the way it is. Everybody knows that to be the case, but a lot of hunters don't care to admit it. They'd rather sweep that reality under the rug and let everyone think that they only do 100 % "proper" stalks, all of the time, but such is almost never the case ALL the time.

But I'll also add this: I've spent far, far more time doing "proper" stalks -- hunting on foot and in blinds -- with Mark Sullivan and John Sharp than I have any other professional hunters. In terms of real hunting and real "ethics", those two men are the very best I've ever hunted with by far. The idea of ever shooting dangerous game from the rig with either one of them would be totally unthinkable, and would never happen.............

AD

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jorge
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Reged: 13/07/05
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Loc: Orange Park, Florida

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#55153 - 19/04/06 01:32 AM

There are only two absolutes in life, death and thanks to democrats, taxes. Well for at least 50% of us anyway, but I digress. To further expand on what Allen said, I've hunted with John Sharp twice and I don't think you will find a more ethical PH. You WILL walk your ass off. However, just to demonstrate nothing is absolute, I proffer the following analogy: We were on the last day of a very successful buff & plains game hunt. So much so, that my wife and I were off with John's apprentice PH "Spanner" looking at aboriginal rock paintings. My friend Todd, was having a run of bad luck with kudu. Normally a fantastic shot, I guess he must have gotten buck fever as he missed an easy upper 50/low 60s class kudu in the thick jess at less than 30 yards. Others turned out to live up to their moniker of "grey ghost." Anyhow with just about 30 minutes of light left, a kudu offered a shot, stopping on top of a ridge at a later measured distance of 352 yards (lazered). He was pretty spooky, so John let my friend settle and get a good rest from the back of the truck, using the roll bar as a rest. It was a thing of beauty. One 300gr Swift A Frame right on the spine and the 55" kudu was his, a fitting end to a great hunt. Was that ethical? I absolutely think so. To think otherwise I think is rather altruistic. jorge

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FMA
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Loc: NYC

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#55310 - 20/04/06 12:10 PM

Wow, didn't think diesel safaris were available outside of RSA. Have never and would never consider shooting anything from a truck, but to each his own.

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allenday
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: FMA]
#55337 - 21/04/06 12:17 AM

If you're under the impression that most of the safari is conducted by shooting animals out of the rig, you are mistaken.........

AD

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jorge
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#55338 - 21/04/06 12:26 AM

Like I said, "altruistic." Some people just have to make an issue of everything and feel compelled to pick flyshit out of pepper. Not to mention that we flew across an ocean on a jet aircraft and all of modern technology topped off by a modern rifle with a scope. Do I need to hunt it down with a stick and a string in order to be "ethical?" What's next, making a ritualistic offering to "Vishnu" in order to "honor" the animal? jeez. jorge

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allenday
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: jorge]
#55353 - 21/04/06 02:28 AM

I'm just a 48-year-old, semi-ignorant, farm-raised hick from Oregon, but in my experience, the guys who climb up on a self-erected soapbox and make inferences about ethics are the very guy's it pays to keep your eye on.......

AD

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FMA
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#55382 - 21/04/06 12:39 PM

Was never under that impression and would never book with guys who do. Was surprised it goes on at all.

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MRobinson
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Reged: 29/01/06
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Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: allenday]
#55383 - 21/04/06 12:42 PM

I agree with MS and the shooters from vehicles. I think the true sportsman would allow his quarry to choose his means--and vehicle--of death.

The choice would, of course, be between being run down by and shot by a double rifle from a Land Rover or by a bolt rifle from a Land Cruiser.

I can see the ad copy now: "Nine out of ten buff prefer Land Rovers and double rifles, so I, the great MS, accommodate them."

Just kidding, guys, but I couldn't resist.

Actually, I detest all that MS stands for (or purports to stand for) in the ludicrous melodramatizations of DG hunting that he uses shamelessly to pimp for his videos. And I shudder to think how he ends up with so many wounded bulls to play with and film.

At the same time, I see no problem with shooting game from a vehicle, as long as (i) it is legal in the jurisdiction in question, (ii) the game is not so used to seeing vehicles that they have no fear of them and the people in them, (iii) the vehicle is NOT used to run down the animal, and (iv) it is the rare exception to the rule that one should stalk on foot to the maximum extent possible.

--------------------
Mike

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: MRobinson]
#55389 - 21/04/06 03:43 PM

I have always been under the impression that it was illegal to shoot an African game animal under the 500 yard mark from the vehicle...hmmm i have read it somewhere...

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: gryphon]
#55390 - 21/04/06 03:46 PM

It varies from country to country and in SA from province to province - but in Tanzania it's 200 metres from the vehicle.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39414
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: shakari]
#55393 - 21/04/06 06:47 PM

A lot of guys pretend they have never shot an animal from a vehicle. A while back someone posted a thread on another forum where for once people were more honest.

I prefer strongly to hunt and stalk and 95% of the time this has been the case but I believe I have shot an impala and a warthog from a vehicle. The warthog was at the insistence of the PH on my first safari and it really was the only decent warthog we had seen. It was on the run and off. The impala was just a casual thing and it didn't really bother me one way or another. We were on the way back to camp having just taken a different animal.

I think the LOT of animals are shot well within a couple hundred metres of a vehicle. On the other hand we probably walked 7 kms in total to take a zebra, five kilometres for an eland, close to 25 to 32 kms n total for a wildbeest (wounded - distance per the PH), only a 150 metres for a kudu, duiker and another impala maybe 50 metres etc etc. The long walks and the short ones balance out a little.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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FMA
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Reged: 15/04/06
Posts: 12
Loc: NYC

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: NitroX]
#55451 - 22/04/06 08:27 AM

I agree on zebra hunting. Think it's way underrated and a lot harder than people think. They are great fun to hunt. Unless I were shooting for the pot, I couldn't take an animal from a truck because it would not involve the hunt, which is my favorite part, and something I love much more than the kill or the trophy. Probably why I could never enjoy American deer hunting but love deer stalking in Scotland. As a very talented PH told me late one night in Reno, "The day I stop feeling a tinge of sadness when an animal goes down, is the day I stop hunting."

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Sasquatch
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Reged: 02/04/06
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Loc: Canada

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: FMA]
#55458 - 22/04/06 11:25 AM

FMA you seem to have a very distorted view of 'American' deer hunting. Not all of it is done from elevated blinds in pickups, tripods or what have you. Much of the best deer hunting in the US and Canada is done on foot through rugged country with many hours of glassing, followed by the stalk.

Hunting anywhere is what you make of it and sadly many of todays hunters want instant gratification and as little effort put into it as possible, and that applies whether you are hunting in europe, North America, Africa or Australia......anywhere.

I have seen it done right and I have seen it done poorly, but it is the hunters not the location that determine the quality and style of the hunt.

One needs to try and avoid being too self righteous.

--------------------
Skyline Adventures
www.canadianblackbearhunt.com

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
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Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: FMA]
#55460 - 22/04/06 11:44 AM

In reply to:

Poster: FMA
Subject: Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN?

I agree on zebra hunting. Think it's way underrated and a lot harder than people think. They are great fun to hunt. Unless I were shooting for the pot, I couldn't take an animal from a truck because it would not involve the hunt, which is my favorite part, and something I love much more than the kill or the trophy. Probably why I could never enjoy American deer hunting but love deer stalking in Scotland. As a very talented PH told me late one night in Reno, "The day I stop feeling a tinge of sadness when an animal goes down, is the day I stop hunting."

FMA

If your only idea of Deer hunting is what is shown on TV than I can understand your reluctance to sit in a tree fort over a feeder and read a book until the Deer you like comes for lunch. That is Television.

It is hard to respond as we don't know where you are from but I would suggest that Scottish stalking is quite simple compared to Mule Deer Hunting in the American or Canadian West. Rugged mountains, high elevation, long shots make for a challenging and usually unfulfilled hunt.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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FMA
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Reged: 15/04/06
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Loc: NYC

Re: DG ETHICS-HARVEST or SHOWDOWN? [Re: mickey]
#55475 - 22/04/06 02:35 PM

I'm from south GA. I think our deer hunting and yours is quite different. Not a fan of stand hunting. I wanna go find it not let it come to me.

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