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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Boomer
.300 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

different techniques from bolt gun to double rifle
#52544 - 16/03/06 09:53 AM

There has been a curious turn concerning my buffalo hunt this summer in Tanzania. Rather than using my .375 it turns out I'll be using a John Wilkes .500 Nitro double rifle. One of the more interesting aspects of this change was the shortness of breath I experienced when I priced out ammo from Westley Richards, but that is not the subject of my post.

Although I have quite a bit of experience shooting powerful rifles, I've never had a double in my hands, not even my shotguns have been doubles. My question then is, how much time should it take an experienced rifleman to become comfortable with this type rifle? If you have any techniques or tricks, I'd be happy to hear them.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double rifle [Re: Boomer]
#52549 - 16/03/06 10:05 AM

Boomer,

I have never hunted with a double rifle and had not even shot one very much until the BGRC shoot at Lodi last year where Ernie Stallman and Keith Olsen gave me their guns to shoot, and I shot several. I doubt you will have any problem with them.

Speaking of ammunition, Mike Schrank of Mike Schrank's Smoke N Gun told me that Aardvark Arms make some very fine ammunition in obsolete calibres at very reasonable rates - you might want to contact them to find out what they would charge for your requirements.

Best wishes and do post pictures of your guns here when you can. Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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JPK
.375 member

Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double rifle [Re: mehulkamdar]
#52551 - 16/03/06 10:19 AM

You will need to get used to double triggers, assuming the 500NE has them. Also opening the gun and reloading. This is best done with a shotgun IMO. Relatively cheap, lots of shooting, no limitation due to recoil. I would try to find a double trigger SxS shotgun to barrow for some time at the skeet range. Shoot from a low gun position and shoot the doubles stations, as well as the singles staions using one and the other barrels til the two triggers become second nature.

BTW, Buzz Charlton points out in his video that many of his clients who shoot DR's forget about the second trigger and this is an issue. In his video there is one scene where a fellow misses the oportunity for an easy, nearly broadside second shot when he get lost in the triggers. Instead Buzz puts in a shot and the fellow gets his second shot as a going away shot.

JPK

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510Wells
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: Boomer]
#52553 - 16/03/06 11:30 AM

Well, where to start?

I have a Searcy also in 500NE and it is a real handful for me.

With a double you should (I thinK) always fire the rear trigger (left barrel) first. If you don't the recoil might jerk your finger off the front trigger and there you go with a double discharge. To give you an idea of the recoil. I always put a bandaid on my trigger finger so the front trigger/trigger guard doesn't wack it and draw blood or cause it to go numb. I am NOT kidding you!

Also you should wrap you front fingers around the forearm AND the barrels to keep the barrels from climbing too much. And you'll want to lean into the gun and HANG ON TIGHT! Make sure you have the butt pad FIRMLY into your shoulder.

The first shot is quite likely to rock you back on your heels or make you have to take a step or two to keep from falling backwards. The next shot or so will be better as you'll have a better idea of what to expect

If you can arrange for some light loads (500 gr. lead bullets, 45 gr. 5744 powder) they wouldn't be bad to start off with.

Hope this helps and that I haven't scared you off, it's fun, really! You just have to "be prepared".

Roi

--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3550
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: 510Wells]
#52575 - 16/03/06 02:09 PM

510Wells:

In reply to:

wack (my trigger finger) and draw blood or cause it to go numb

Not a very good advertisement for the Searcy .500!

I can't help but suspect that there is something critically wrong with either design or technique whenever a big-bore rifle draws blood from the user rather than the quarry!
Personally, I wouldn't stand for it if the firearm is at fault. If technique is to blame, then get to work on it! There's simply no excuse for continuing to hurt yourself with a double rifle.
I wouldn't advocate firing the left barrel (rear trigger) first, it is non-intuitive under recoil and will get you into trouble eventually. Better to identify and fix the problem rather than compensate IMHO.

Your advice on shooting the big kickers is otherwise quite sound, esp. grab the barrels and "hang on tight!"

JPK has the right idea too, shoot double-trap or skeet with a 2-trigger SxS shottie till it becomes instinctive, and use the tang-safety before and after each pair as well till you never stuff it up. Instinctive tang-safety operation is at least as important as correct triggering when you tackle DG.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: Marrakai]
#52585 - 16/03/06 05:08 PM

You'll find the Wilkes to be a good quality rifle, as long as it is still in good condition. Avoid Westley ammo. The current Kynoch is excellent.

If you're going to take up the double, learn to use double triggers correctly. Reversing the correct firing sequence in order to avoid double discharges is no substitute. If you're hunting with a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other, sooner or later, you'll need to fire the right barrel first. If you haven't mastered double triggers, what do you do then? Just accept a double discharge?

The correct firing sequence is Right-Left. If you don't keep your finger mounted on the front trigger through the recoil impulse of the right barrel, it may slip off and strum the rear trigger hard enough to fire the left. Like anything else, some guys have a lot more trouble with this than others. To start, wrap your index finger around the trigger with the trigger blade in the first joint, not between the joint and the tip. Play with it from there and find out what works for you. When firing the right, put an empty primed case in the left until you get the hang of it.

I've never had any of my fingers whacked by the front trigger or the guard bow when firing a heavy double.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: Marrakai]
#52586 - 16/03/06 05:13 PM

Yes the tang safety! I forgot about it since all of my shotguns have one, even my pump shotguns. It shouldn't take long to get accustomed to flicking it off during gun mount since it is the most natural and accomodating safety there is.

For the first time ever with either a rifle or shotgun, I notice my trigger finger whacking the front trigger when under recoil from using the back trigger on my DR a couple of weeks ago. Our various bird seasons had just ended and I started shooting my DR in prep for a Sept safari. When shooting birds I grip the gun rather lightly with my trigger hand. Gripping my rifle a bit tighter cured the problem.

JPK

Edited by JPK (16/03/06 05:17 PM)

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CptCurl
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#52597 - 16/03/06 10:10 PM

400NE has made a point that I have stressed to others (and to myself) with double rifles: how to place your finger on the trigger.

We who have a long history of shooting bolt rifles and pistols have always been taught to place only the finger tip on the trigger to have the best trigger control. You know the drill - this gives the greatest amount of "feel" to the shooter because it's where the tactile nerves are concentrated. We squeeze lightly on these finely tuned triggers. Our best accuracy results. We're proud and happy campers! That's all true for bolts and pistols.

It's all WRONG for DR's. You have to consciously break this fundamental rule. Put the trigger firmly in the first joint of your finger like you never heard of this rule. Grab it like a kid would do. Your DR will have a heavier trigger than your bolt gun or your M41 S&W. It needs to be heavier, partly for this very reason.

If you touch it "bolt and pistol" style, the recoil will cause you to lose your perch on the front trigger and strum the rear. I call it "harping" because it's like playing the strings of a harp. Your finger will slip off the front and touch the rear trigger, causing a double. I've had this happen with my .500NE, and the reason has always been finger placement on the front trigger as stated.

This is a learned habit. It's hard to break the long-ingrained habit of touching the trigger only with the tip of the finger. It goes against all we have been taught. You have to practice to "unlearn" the "bolt and pistol" style. This is the guaranteed cure to doubling.

By the way, the dreaded doubling of a large caliber double rifle isn't much to fear in terms of how it affects your shoulder. The few times I have doubled my .500NE I didn't even know it doubled. If you are otherwise holding the rifle properly it will just shove you a little harder. You won't end up in the hospital. Your rifle is your friend, and it won't hurt you. Don't fear it.

Having said that, you MUST learn how to shoot without doubling. The occurrence of a double in the face of dangerous game might get the shit stomped out of you for lack of a followup shot!

Just my $0.02 worth.

Best of luck,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: CptCurl]
#52609 - 17/03/06 12:27 AM

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I live up in the sticks, ,and I don't think that there is a side-by-side double barreled shotgun in town - only pumps and auto's, and a few single triggered over-unders.

The comments as to trigger control are interesting, and apparently I was thinking incorrectly. I would of thought rear trigger first because this is the trigger which allows the most natural hand position, and therefore provides the best advantage for an initial shot, then as the rifle recoils the hand slides forward on the pistol grip, and is in position to engage the front trigger on follow up. Yes, I have trained myself to shoot both a rifle and a handgun with just the front pad of the finger, so using full finger contact on the trigger might take some getting used to. With regards to the foerend - Yes I will grip the barrels, provided the forend is suitably shaped.

I don't think recoil will be an issue. I've owned a number of light for caliber rifles, and I could hold any of them for 3 shots from prone. Agreed, a .458 is not a .500, but then, neither do I anticipate shooting the .500 from prone.

The ammunition is being bought by the owner of the rifle, and my only input is to pay for it. I've ordered 50 rounds, and I hope this will be enough to familiarize myself to a new rifle and technique with some left over for hunting.

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CptCurl
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: different techniques from bolt gun to double r [Re: Boomer]
#52610 - 17/03/06 01:09 AM

Boomer,

It sounds like you'll be good to go. If you can handle a .458 you won't have trouble with the .500.

Best,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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mhb
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Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona

And one other thing... [Re: Boomer]
#52615 - 17/03/06 01:58 AM

No one else specifically mentioned this - it's something I should have known, but had to remind myself of the hard, painful way (twice) - when shooting top-lever rifles with significant recoil, DO NOT leave your thumb on the top of the tang. It doesn't matter with bolt guns, or when the recoil is less strenuous, but the .500 NE WILL bite you, if you forget to wrap your thumb around the top of the grip. Mikey's Rule of Thumb!
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA

Re: And one other thing... [Re: mhb]
#52652 - 17/03/06 08:27 AM

The advice given so far is terrific. I understand what you say though about no double shotguns sxs around for you to borrow to "practice". I bought an old Stevens double barrel 12 gauge side by side on auctionarms for $180 so that I could practice. I had and still have a ball with that gun, unfortunatley it can't take the hotter loads or slugs, so I have to shoot vintage shells in it. Recoil is almost nothing, but still a highly recommended way to "start" into a double barrel two trigger side by side gun.

Then I bought a nice Italian double barrel slug gun (for quite a bit more $) but it came with one trigger. I had to retrain myself going from a double to a single trigger, but it did not take long. The holding of the gun, mounting & swinging a double sxs, the wrapping of the finger, etc. etc., were all the same.

I was thinking about your current need to get some "training" and one approach might be to buy a double barrel coach gun or a 24 inch older double shotgun. You can get these pretty cheap, ie, like I did, around $200.
Start out with light loads and work your way up and since you have plenty of RECOIL experience it is not like you are a NEWBY. So, you won't need many light loads. But hey every first few shots (in my opinion) are best with lower powder loads just to get the feel.

But I think the $100 - $200 investment would give you more confidence and comfort heading off to hunt with a TYPE of gun you lack acquaintence with. Howcan you put a price on confidence and comfort zone feelings heading off to shoot big game? Plus, you can then have this little double barrel 12 gauge for around the house or for who knows what, you may really like it and use yours... that is what happened to me... that was maybe one of the best $180 bucks I spent.

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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada

Re: And one other thing... [Re: Yogi000]
#53384 - 27/03/06 11:56 AM

Well after some thought I decided to follow the advice and now have a Lefever Nitro Special, 24" double SXS open choke 12 gauge with double triggers to practice with. Shooting Winchester 23/4" slugs, the the slugs print touching at 10 yards and 4" low and 4" apart at 25 yards. It's interesting to shoot this thing, after the first shot I'm not impressing myself with the speed of the second shot, but that will come.

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