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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Bwana
.224 member


Reged: 07/03/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Monroe, Michigan
Double rifle -- first one-need advice
      #52478 - 15/03/06 01:17 PM

I need all the expert advice out there! I really want to buy a double rifle, but I have some questions: I am tall and am wondering if a custom made rifle (for my height) is more appropriate, considering recoil. Also, what is the ideal caliber? I believe that a 375 H&H is the most practical caliber for Africa in a bolt gun but I've always favored a .470 in a double. Are there other Double rifle calibers that may be more appropriate (and practical) considering the expense of the ammo? I don't know. I anticipate hunting elephant and Cape Buff in the future? After doing all the research, I believe that it is hard to beat a Searcy for Custom fit and certainly price. I am certainly interested in all opinions.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52501 - 16/03/06 01:05 AM

Bwana,

You have many options today as brass is readily available most calibers and you can reload for less than $2.00 per shot, cheaper if you shoot cast. If you want to delve into British doubles: do your homework, search, negotiate, take advice and you will be well severed. My brother and I each own 100 year old doubles that shoot great. His is a 500/450 and mine is a 450No2. We shoot cheap 350 grain Hornadys for practice and light game.

Regarding a new Searcy, can’t go wrong there. However, consider one of the .450 based cartridges instead of the 470. Personally, I would choose the 500/450 for the following reasons: .458 bullets, new honerberner(sp) brass, can easily form brass from the ubiquitous 470, NFB loads, and full nitro loads.


--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52520 - 16/03/06 04:13 AM

Bwana:

As you probably have read in numerous other thread, the fit of a DR to you is the single most important aspect when looking for recoil management. With that being said, the better the fit, the less noticable recoil you should experience.

Considering your stated physique, I would, without a doubt, look into a manufacture that will alter the stock dimensions for you.

I know Searcy does it without additional charge. I have heard that the Merkels, Chapuis and Heyms can also be fit to you, but not sure if they charge extra for that.

Remember, the Searcy is built for the individual ordering them; the others (Merkle, Chapuis, etc) are built for the gun rack.

Regarding caliber, a .470 is a good starting point. However, a lot of guys are looking to the .450/400 these days, and Butch will build you one.

The .450/400 will kill anything on this planet, and for a time, it was "THE" African caliber of choice.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52521 - 16/03/06 04:14 AM

In reply to:

I believe that it is hard to beat a Searcy for Custom fit and certainly price.



And don't forget Butch has a 100% no questions asked warranty.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Bwana
.224 member


Reged: 07/03/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Monroe, Michigan
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: clark7781]
      #52522 - 16/03/06 04:23 AM

Clark,

Thanks for the input. I have done a lot of research on Double Rifles and manufacturers. My conclusion is that it is pretty tough to beat a Searcy for value. I would like to know if anyone is aware how long it takes Searcy to build a PH model rifle in .470. Also, would it be worth travelling to Boron, California to see Butch to be fitted for the rifle, or just take the measurements myself.

On an interesting side note, I spoke with my PH from South Africa who is looking to buy a Double Rifle as well. He figures that the new gun laws in South Africa (restrictions on number of guns you can own) will cause a lot of Doubles to be put up for sale.

Bwana

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52525 - 16/03/06 06:09 AM

Butch is currently about 18 months backlogged. There were a tremendous number of orders at the SCI Reno and Dallas shows.

I have a new PH 470 and 12 Ga for sale in the classified section on this site.

Pete

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52527 - 16/03/06 06:37 AM

You have come to the right site! I am no expert but if your physical size is as you state then you probably need a custom fit.

I have a 458 Win Mag and have a 11pound 470 Merkel that fits well but recoils more!!- but I stillI prefer the recoil of the Merkel!!
As stated previously,this relates to gun fit.You should try several Doubles(if possible) to finally decide.

Read the multitude of prior posts on doubles. A virtual wealth of info is present here that is found few other places.

Enjoy!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: clark7781]
      #52528 - 16/03/06 06:40 AM

Clark,

It looks like Bwana has decided on the 470 however; the only advantage I see of the 450/400 over the 500/450 is a lighter slimmer rifle, which is a big advantage. But the 500/450 is so much more versatile with the wide bullet selection from 350-500. I'm flummoxed to find a more perfect DR cartridge.

B.



--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: bonanza]
      #52532 - 16/03/06 07:28 AM

Bonanza:

I'm a big bore nut, and love everything over the .450 diameter.

I mentioned the .450/400 to Bwana because recently a lot of guys are taking another keen interest into this round, probably because of the lighter recoil compared to the .450+ calibers.

I agree that the .450 is more versatile, but if someone were recoil sensititive, the .450/400 may be the best of all worlds.

Regarding the Searcy - I have one at the engraver's place right now - a .577 NE 3".

If you are dropping $10K for a rifle, the cost of an ticket to Boron, meals and a hotel room is WELL worth it, IMHO! Butch will measure you himself and you will not have any thought in the back of your mind that you might have measured incorrectly.

Also, Butch is opening a new shot in Sturgis, SD. Make sure you know where he'll be before buying your ticket.



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: Bwana]
      #52539 - 16/03/06 09:28 AM

In reply to:

After doing all the research, I believe that it is hard to beat a Searcy for Custom fit and certainly price. I am certainly interested in all opinions.



There's a lot of "mis-information" out there for double rifles.
1) All double rifle makers in this price range will make the stock to your dimensions (custom fit them). Yes, even Merkel and Chapuis. Merkel upcharges (not much), Chapuis does not. In a HEYM it depends on how far from "average" you are. If you're close, no charge. If you're right-handed and left-eye dominant and need a stock that looks like a hockey-stick, they're probably going to charge for that (again, not much).

2) They all shoot about the same for accuracy... some guns may be more accurate individually, but no blanket statement can be legitimately made that one brand in particular is "more accurate" than the others. Just ain't so...

3) For durability's sake, with a little care they will all last you a life-time (and then some)

IMO, for just a l-i-t-t-l-e bit more money... You can buy alot more quality for the same money than the Searcy, specifically I'm talking about the PH model.

Go up to the 16.5 Deluxe and there are a lot of other options available.


--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: clark7781]
      #52611 - 17/03/06 01:21 AM

Clark,

We all eagerly await you .577!!

In regards to the 450/400; at one time it was the {only} cartridge I was considering in a British double - that was - until I stumbled on the buy of the century and picked up a 500/450 and fell in love with that cartridge. I was able to closely match the ballistics (recoil) of a .375 H&H, 450/400, and a 470. Colorado owns the rifle now and has become a big fan of the 500/450 also. I think the cartridge is little known because there a so few rifles chambered in it and it is over shadowed by the 500/465.


--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: bonanza]
      #52618 - 17/03/06 02:40 AM

Bonanza:

You and I both! I'm like a kid at Christmas!

I sent the engraver, Mark Swanson, a nice big heck two weeks ago and spoke with him last week.

He has the gun and is drawing some mock-ups right now. (I.e., how to position the animals, the scroll work, etc.)

He said he'll probably start cutting by the end of the month.

We're getting there, friends, we are getting there!

Personally, I find something very romantic with the old .500/450s. If I understand it correctly, it was THE rifle before the rebels got their hands on .450 caliber rifles and started pulling bullets out of the hunting cartridges. If this hadn't happened, and .450 caliber bullets weren't banned in parts of Africa and India, most of the rifles today would have been in this caliber.

You got yourself a beauty there, Bonanza!

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: bonanza]
      #52673 - 17/03/06 07:58 PM

Wasn't Teddy R's. double a .500/450?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Double rifle -- first one-need advice [Re: DarylS]
      #52679 - 17/03/06 11:24 PM

Yes indeed!



The .500/.450 NE is a great cartridge, no doubt. Without the .450-component ban in the colonies, it would certainly be more commonly seen today, and with the plethora of inexpensive .458 bullets it would be a marvellous choice for all-round heavy game.

bonanza:
I think you might find, though, that the .450 NE (Rigby, or 'straight' 3 1/4" cartridge) would have gained the front running between the wars. It allows a slimmer action, and hence a more elegant gun, or alternatively more steel in the breech for better weight between the hands, than the earlier black-powder conversion .500/.450. The larger powder capacity of the necked-down .500 case was no longer needed in the smokeless era, and in fact was not even of much value in lowering pressure in the post-cordite era.

Nevertheless, either cartridge makes a fine DG double-rifle chambering today.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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