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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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iwantadouble
.300 member


Reged: 06/06/05
Posts: 104
Loc: Gallatin County, Montana
Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby
      #52143 - 12/03/06 12:22 AM

Just figured that I would post a quick comment about doubles and accuracy. Yesterday I got the oppertunity to shoot a friends new (to him anyway) .303 Rigby double. We were shooting 174gr PMC through it. Test ranges were 100 yards and mainly 200 yards. Shooting at discarded clay pigeons at 100 yards and a 6" gong at 200 yards. Right or left barrels were pegging every partial pigeon laying on the ground at 100 yards we shot at. Left barrel was making the gong ring each time the gun was pointed at it and fired, with the right just skimming over the tops with a center hold on the gong, and pegging the upper half with a 6 o' clock hold. I was ashamed when I brought my .375 (M70) out and we shot it. It is accurate, but nothing like that little Rigby. Nor was it nearly as immediately placed on target when shouldered like the Rigby. Never again will I say English express sights are optimistic, and the accuracy of that rifle is still amazing me. By the way, shots were taken from both a bench rest and standing position.

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500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3487
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52144 - 12/03/06 12:36 AM

Glad to hear it, iwantadouble. That .303 double's accuracy mirrors my own experiences with 'good' Brit SxSs and express sights.

That Rigby may have been re-regulated for the Mk7 cartridge, as most were originally regulated with Mk6 or earlier ammo with the 215-grainer at ~2000fps. I knew of one here in Oz which ol'mate Vic re-regulated many years ago, it was a fully-engraved sidelock with the Bissell third bite, marvellous! Not sure what happened to it, probably went to the US during the dark days of our 49-cent currency exchange rate.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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iwantadouble
.300 member


Reged: 06/06/05
Posts: 104
Loc: Gallatin County, Montana
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: Marrakai]
      #52147 - 12/03/06 12:59 AM

I had initially planned to look the rifle over very scrupulously and given all kinds of details on its action, barrel length, ect., but the moment it was put in my hand and a box of cartridges laid out, I kind of got side tracked. It is a boxlock, its got full coverage fine scroll engraving, an Ansen forend release and coin finish reciever, but aside from that, The rest is a blur clouded by smokeless powder burning in my nostrils. I can't remember if it was a PVH or a Screw Grip, but I am almost positive it was a downsized Webley action. In fashion with every English double I've shouldered, and every Rigby rifle I have shouldered, the cute little rifle was grand in its mount and dismount.

He had told me what it was regulated for (one of the Mark loadings) but being that I am not a huge (or wasn't) fan of the .303, it went through one ear and out the other. My initial impression left by Enfields years ago as the round being inaccurate has since been replaced with the more apt impression that the Enfields I have shot are inaccurate, the round is quite capable of amazing accuracy, and has bumped it up a notch in my rankings of small bore, non-Magnum cartridge preference to above the .30-06, but still below the 8x57mm.

Sorry for my ramblings, I just tend to get this way after shooting doubles. It is a bit of a yearning for one of my own, or rather a fuel source being applied to an open flame, causing a flare up of it. They never cease to amaze me in one regard or another, and I just needed some place to vent my elation over my latest double rifle amazement before I exploded from containing it.

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500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52148 - 12/03/06 01:18 AM

I WANT A DOUBLE WROTE:- "My initial impression left by Enfields years ago as the roundbeing inaccurate has since been replaced with the more apt impression that the Enfields I have shot are inaccurate, the round is quite capable of amazing accuracy, and has bumped it up a notch in my rankings of small bore, non-Magnum cartridge preference to above the .30-06,"

It must have been a badly beat up Enfield or crook ammo you were using because the Enfield 303 has a very good reputation for accuracy and was a very popular sniper round in the Enfield rifle.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #52157 - 12/03/06 03:20 AM

Al-

Funny about the .303
I've handled and shot numerous enfields, many of them in really great looking condition, a few of them in sniper configuration.
I've never run one that could do any better than 2.5moa
even through a piece of glass.
They all completely wrecked the brass too.

These experiences had also left me with little respect for the british martial guns and the cartridge.
I get it that 2.5moa is good enough to kill a soldier on most days, but it's just not remarkably accurate in my books. I don't blame it on the cartridge, I'll accept that there may be enfields out there that can repeat and sustain a better accuracy standard too, but I have yet to handle one of them.

For whatever it's worth, I consider inside 1moa to be the beginning of where a bolt gun can be considered accurate.
I know it takes work to get a gun to that standard, I know it takes a marksman to get it there on the target.
I'm sure there's a modern brit martial arm of some sort that'll do it, I just don't have the faith in an enfield to do that kind of work.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: tinker]
      #52226 - 12/03/06 11:47 PM

I have pondered over the above comments and agree in principle however a few things need to be taken into consideration.
1 . the 303 round is over 120 years old and still going strong.

2. to many people worry about MOA and in the field probably 2% of hunters are able to acheive that in a stand up situation.

3. I have observed over a period of time that particularly Americans believe that high muzzle velocity is everything and therefore the reliable old 303 doesn't fit into this catogory.

4. The Enfield rifle has been serving the military all over the world for upwards of 70 odd years.

Enough said.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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seroadglide
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Reged: 06/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: West Tenn., USA
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #52253 - 13/03/06 08:52 AM

Tinker,
I hope all is well with you; I enjoyed our conversation the other evening.

I have been impressed withh the Enfield battle rifles; I owned several of the various makes and models when they were imported into the US for dirt cheap prices. Ammo was cheap then as well.

I had No 1 and No 4 models to include Lithgow's, British makes, and even an Ishapore 308 from the 60,s. Most were good for 2 to 3 inches at 100 yds with the issue sights and surplus ammo. I find this acceptable for what they are and for what they were intended.

They were reliable and fast for a bolt gun. The trigger mechanism is extremely simple; I appreciate this on a military rifle.

As for accuracy, our own 14 had a reputation for very good accuracy. When I searched for what the MILITARY standard was, IIRC it was 6" at 100yds;not good enough but most will do much better.

Have to go, Have a good day,

Doug

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: seroadglide]
      #52258 - 13/03/06 10:06 AM

Doug-

Likewise on the conversation, thanks for your time and words on the Belgian.

As far as battle rifles go, I really have little to no interest *at all* in martial arms.
I have a pair of tuned 1911s and a tuned mouse gun set up for highpower, but that's about as far as it goes with me and martial arms. The guns I speak of are very accurate, the rifle will stay inside a minute all day long.
Wether or not I can hold a minute all day long doesn't have a thing to do with the accuracy potential of the rifle though. Hardware is hardware, my comments here in the thread on enfield rifles is just seat of the pants impression of that line of british martial rifles.
I'm fairly certian that there are modern british precision bolt guns prepared specially for sniper/countersniper work that would impress me, rifles that'd easily qualify in my books as accurate. I just haven't handled or shot one yet.

I've seen .303 sporting arms that looked and felt very nice in the hand, I've gotten to run a very nice european single shot rifle in the brit chambering that just charmed the hell out of me. Over it's slick set of express sights it shot *minute of whatever I pointed at* with proper ammunition. I can imagine there are some very nice double rifles out there set up in .303 brit that I'd have a really hard time kicking out of my vault too. I'm just not shopping for them right now. My 8x60r BLE is doing a great job at keeping my thirty caliber nitro side by side attentions satisfied.


Perhaps some day, somewhere someone will turn the controls of thier enfield over to me and I'll be impressed with it.
I'm not against that as a possibility.


--Tinker



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: iwantadouble]
      #52440 - 15/03/06 01:04 AM

Found these pics of a Holland 303 on an auction site some time ago.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #52446 - 15/03/06 02:45 AM

Now that thing's a honey-

I bet that little rifle is as slender as a 28bore.
There's a .303 I could warm up to!

Gotta wonder if those cats were original though, as well as the finish.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: tinker]
      #52479 - 15/03/06 01:38 PM

Does it matter?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: mickey]
      #52482 - 15/03/06 04:58 PM

I'd kind of like to think that they were added later.
In my eyes, they're the only thing wrong with the look of the rifle.
The cats clutter the otherwise simple and elegant lines of the gun.

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: tinker]
      #52495 - 15/03/06 09:49 PM

What a beauty.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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Jeffery
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Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Woodbridge Suffolk England
Re: Accurate Double rifle - .303 Rigby [Re: bulldog563]
      #52499 - 16/03/06 12:18 AM

Two links to .303 ammunition information

General comments on the .303 including head stamp code
Courtesy of Harrington Aviation Museum Society

http://www.harringtonmuseum.org.uk/303CartRTT.htm


Hand loading the .303 by C.E. Harris

http://www.public.asu.edu/~roblewis/SMLE/IIID2a11a4.html

Regards,

Norman

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