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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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doublegunfan
.275 member


Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer
      #51896 - 10/03/06 12:15 AM

Guys,

Someone here in my country is selling a drilling by Sauer, in 20x20x.444 Marlin. Price is R$ 3500, or about US$ 1600. I don't think it is cased.

Most drillings I have seen so far are hammerless models and chambered for metric rifle calibres. I have a feeling that a .444 is an odd calibre for a German drilling, and the fact that this is a hammer model makes me think if this is not an old gun rechambered for this more modern calibre.

Does anyone know about these guns? How good are Sauer drillings? Ever heard of this calibre/gauge combination?

Fred

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: doublegunfan]
      #52644 - 17/03/06 06:16 AM

Sir

what you have is probably a chamber for the one of this cartridges: 11,15x52R, 11,15x60R, 11,15x65R

history: .410 ga shotgun brass cases come in use for rifled barrels mayby around 1885( we dont know it exactly). this are allways low power blackpowder rounds chambered most times in Drillings. only the 11,15x65R is in the CIP list with a .445bullet dia. and a max. pressure of 2000 bar. .444 marlin brass is very similar to .410 shotgun brass in diameter, in fact its possible to use the brass in both guns. make a chamber cast and slug the barrel to see what for a case length your gun need. if you have a 60 or 65 mm long chamber try Magtech .410 shotgun brass, its inexpensive and will work with 2000 bar. Maybe you have to trim the rim a lttle bit. The rim of the shotgun case was reworked in old times and you find such cases in old catalogs marked with "LK" for Lancester Kugel---Lancester Bullet.
All center fire shotgun ammo was named lancester cartridge in differenc to lefaucheux pinfire cartridges you find together in ammunitions catalogs in this time.
Shotgun case based bullet cartridges are Lancester Kugelpatronen. German- Austrian full rifled shotgun cartridges are not the same as british paradox or full rifled cartridges.
Max. rim dia. for the LK cartridges is 13,15mm and max. rim thickness is 1,40mm, make a test with .410 ga Magtech brass if it fit the chamber.

greetings from krautland

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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: pwm]
      #52681 - 18/03/06 01:10 AM

PWM,

Thanks for your reply. In fact, I did discover that the gun is a 11.15 X 65 mm, and the current owner is using Magtech' brass for cases. Apparently, he is using .429 pistol bullets.

Do you know where I can find loads for this calibre?

Fred

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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: doublegunfan]
      #52690 - 18/03/06 03:27 AM

sorry no loading data, only I found is 4,5gramm blackpowder

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doublegunfan
.275 member


Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: pwm]
      #52691 - 18/03/06 04:20 AM

I found loads for the .43 Mauser (11.15X60mmR). 30 grs of IMR4198+filler behind a 370gr lead bullet @ 1200fps.

I don't know if this can be used as a starting point for the longer 65mm case. Possibly, it will require more filler.

Fred

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: doublegunfan]
      #52697 - 18/03/06 06:01 AM

The Mauser case is a bottleneck case. That I think would have more case capacity that the strait walled but longer case you are talking about.

Bill

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Sauer 20x20x.444 Hammer [Re: doublegunfan]
      #52761 - 19/03/06 10:41 AM

The .43 Mauser case has considerably higher capacity than a .444 case. It is longer, and fatter even in the neck.
: For loads, any loading manual will give starting loads through max loads meant for a lever action Marlin to a maximum of about 43,000CUP pressure. You can load to whatever presure level you want. Some data presents loads for up to 340gr. bullets for faster twist rifles.
: Oh - I see, a 65mm or 2 1/2" case, (roughly). I'd expect that moderate .444 Marlin data would be a good place to start as it is developed for a 2.2" case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (19/03/06 10:43 AM)

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