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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Hagn single shot
      #51483 - 05/03/06 05:01 AM

Hi all, I just discovered this forum a few days ago and I am impressed with all the knowledge here. I would appreciate any thoughts on my next project which is a 375 Holland single shot.

For the last 7 or 8 years I have pretty much shot black powder cartridge rifles exclusively. Lots of Texas hunting, a guided CO elk trip and BPCR silhouette. Frankly, I am tired of the limited range and relatively poor killing ability of the 40 Sharps I prefer. I have recently begun shooting jacketed bullets and smokeless powder in my 40-70ss which ends up being a slightly less powerful 405win.

For general feral hog and other hunting I am going to buy/build a 375 Holland. I had an Interarms mark X years ago and killed a lot of game with it. But now I want a single shot. I realize that buying a stock Ruger #1 would be the smartest option, but I have a desire for a really fine action and I am considering the Hagn. I've looked at their website for a while and read all of SDH's description of it. I don't want to put $10,000 in a full Hagn custom and then use it as roughly as this one will get used. I could see myself going $5000 or so for a field grade version.

Someday I see myself killing a cape buffalo with this rifle provided I can find a PH that is comfortable with the single shot situation.

Do any of you guys have any insight or recommendations?

Thanks,
Sharps
Josh Amerine

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #51484 - 05/03/06 05:39 AM

First welcome to the board. Here is an alternative that depends on how it is done could be about $5,000 finished. It was on an earlier thread.

For more details you can look at the homepage for more
action details.

However if you go this route please give thought to the 375 Flanged .

I'd say the above action witha tapered octagon or octagon to round barrel with quarter rib, nice reddish walnut with some feathering and pancake cheekpiece. Color cased receiver and rust blued barrel. With maybe the rings or the quarter rib also case colored for accent would make a fine rifle. Even if it would only be me who liked it .

Good luck take pictures to share with us on whatever you decide.

BB

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: banzaibird]
      #51532 - 05/03/06 12:41 PM

Banzai, I have looked over the Hein website and corresponded with Karl about having a rifle built, its about $7400 in a field style. I wish I could see more of the Hein action, I just don't know much about it. I am still seriously considering it. I have to say though that the Hagn has really grabbed me.

One of the reasons I want a 375 Holland is for that eventual trip to Africa. I have been told that the ammunition is widely available over there. Is the 375 flanged as easily traveled with? I do like the rimmed calibers in a single shot.

I was thinking about liquidating some of my gun collection that is gathering cobwebs and coming up with $4500 or so for a Hagn barreled action with quarter rib and Talleys in the white, then later when I could save a little more have it stocked and finished.

Any better ideas?

Thanks,
Josh

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #51536 - 05/03/06 12:49 PM

Oh, I hadn't thought of them doing the whole gun. I was thinking of purchase of the action. Then have it barreled, then stocked, then finished however you want. That would allow the cost to be spread out and still have a nice gun.

Truth be told I have absolutely no idea about anything in Africa much less ammo availability. I however am like you and think a fine single shot deserves and equally fine rimmed caliber when possible.

BB

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SDH
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Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 47
Loc: MT
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: banzaibird]
      #51853 - 09/03/06 10:40 AM

The Hagn is definatly not for the budget minded. My thoughts on the actions are well detailed on the website. The extraction works equally well with rimless cartriges (maybe better) and while I also prefer rimmed in single shots, the two I have commissions to build are in .280 and .375 H&H.
As for the .375Flanged, the only sence this cartridge makes is British nostalgia for older, weaker actions. I'm nostalgic minded, and if I were working with an older action it would be a consideration. To each his own. the Hagn and H&H cartridges seem very "right" together.

The problem with the Hein is the same with all the "new" single shot actions I've seen come and go. The firm will have to get several in the hands of custom gunmakers before they can be adiquately evaluated. Many of the past companies have folded before this happened. Only time will tell.
The prototype is for dinosauer cartridges which doesn't appeal to very many, as they will find out. Although they are talking about multiple sizes, personally, I don't want to experiment with thier experiment. Scaling up or down can be challenging.

As for stocking a Hagn, do find someone with experience, the actions deserve the best in stockmaking.

--------------------
SDH
www.finegunmaking.com

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: SDH]
      #51864 - 09/03/06 01:02 PM

SDH, I sincerely appreciate your insight. If you don't mind would you hang a ballpark range price that a feller should be prepared to pay to have a Hagn done up proper in 375 Holland? Quarter rib, back-up irons, nicely case colored, good English walnut. I know this is an odd question, but if you were out in the pasture (metaphorically) like me would you have them complete the rifle or hire one of the high end US gunsmiths (like you) do the work?

Thanks for the help,
Sharps
Josh

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SDH
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #51950 - 10/03/06 06:26 AM

Sharps,
I absoluetly do not quote prices, even to prospective clients. I work by the hour and it makes no sense to quote a project I would be working on two to three years from now.

To get the quality the action deserves your initial estimate of $10,000 is not off base. As for beating-up the rifle, how are your Sharps surviving? I assume they don't have plastic stocks???

Hagn builds a great complete rifle, Martin does the stocking. You can figure the barreled action price, or completed, from the info on their website (very reasonable). It would be more from me, I couldn't quote for other guys.

It depends upon what you want, and who you want to do it. Most of my clients are either repeat or decide they want my work before they contact me. I only get to make a few guns per year so I try to make them very special. I'm big on function and accuracy, balance and handling, as well as esthetics and finishing.

You've got a great project in mind, when you are ready to order, talk with Ralf about brl contours and lengths, finished weight, scope mounts, and TRUST his advice. Start looking for a stocker when the metal is ordered.
Have you got my Custom Rifles book? It could be a big help.
SDH
" target="_blank">http://

--------------------
SDH
www.finegunmaking.com

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: SDH]
      #51992 - 10/03/06 12:47 PM

SDH, I misspoke in that I did not mean to ask you to quote a project. I was really just asking for some range of cost for the project I have in mind. This rifle is head and shoulders more expensive and detailed than anything I have done before.

I have visualized almost exactly the rifle I have in mind, but as I am sure you have found from some of your less experienced clients, explaining that vision to someone else is very diffcult. I have just recently become aware of your book on the subject and I will get it.

I am still a little way from being ready to order this rifle. My current custom project is a BPCR silhouette rifle that is being built on a Wesson action. Once that rifle is complete then the .375 will be up.

My Sharps' are doing OK for the hard use they are getting. Last years rifle is below. It is back at Shiloh repairing some problems. While its a nice rifle, a $4000 semi-custom Shiloh is a long way from a $10,000+ Hagn.

I sincerely appreciate your help,
Sharps
Josh








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SDH
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Reged: 06/02/04
Posts: 47
Loc: MT
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #52040 - 10/03/06 05:20 PM

Josh,
Don't get me wrong, the internet is full of folks that want quotes for things they only dream of. Your original $10K figure is as good as any.
Nice Sharps! better wood than they usually use. I know Chad, Shilo's stocker. He's been in my shop several times. Big Timber is just down the interstate.
Good on you, I also can see the rifle you dream of and have all the hopes you can make it a worthwhile reality. I will be building a very similar rifle early next year, for a serious hunter who frequents Tanzania.
No condisention intended, but what your asking about is heads above what you have. Few folks even have as fine a rifle as you show here. You obviously have the ability to imagine the next level of sophistication.
Those are the type of projects I'm interested it and I am always looking for a good client, while I'm not looking for the next job. I work closely with Martini & Hagn and might help facilitate the importation.
PM me if you would like a signed copy of Custom Rifles. I'd be pleased to provide it.
" target="_blank">http://

--------------------
SDH
www.finegunmaking.com

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: SDH]
      #52109 - 11/03/06 09:55 AM

SDH, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to help me. I realize how much more refined the rifle project I have in mind is over what I have done in the past. I've got several of what I refer to as semi-customs in that they are bolt actions (Nesika Bay, etc) that are barreled up the way I want with a glass stock of my choosing. I don't really think of a rifle as a full blown custom unless it is stocked in nice wood and is fitted to the user.

That Shiloh wood was an english blank that I sent them. The engraving was done by Ken Hurst. Its currently back at Shiloh having some problems re-worked. Its hard to see in that picture but the case hardening did not turn out well and they are fixing it.

I would very much appreciate a signed copy of Custom Rifles. I am sending you a PM on that subject now.

Thanks for your time,
Josh

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: SDH]
      #52176 - 12/03/06 08:01 AM

Well to heck with the PM, I can't seem to get one to go through. I'll send you a money order Monday for the book. I don't want to waste your time discussing details on this rifle project yet, but when I get a little closer to starting I will contact you.

I have a Ruger #1 in .375 that should be here next week. I intend to try to burn the barrel off of it around the ranch for the next few months. I hope that will help me sort out what I would like in a Hagn .375.

Thanks,
Josh

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: SDH]
      #52909 - 21/03/06 12:30 PM

Mr. Hughes, I recieved the book today. Thank you very much. I have just had enough time to glance through the single shot section. I am going to like reading this one very much.

The Ruger #1 in 375 is here. I slapped a 2.5x8 Leupold that I had laying around on it. The rings are too high so I'll get some mediums in the next day or two. I put a better pad on it and glassed in the buttstock.

It shoots well enough and over the next few months I will start to get some sense of what I want in a custom. Frankly, I was surprised by the accuracy offhand. It hangs reasonably well. The bad news is that I was also surprised by the recoil. Its just a bit much at my current skill level. I kicked my loads up to 4000fpe for Jim Hackewicz's postal shoot from 24 hour campfire and I am not doing a good job shooting right now. I am so accustomed to shooting black powder and lead bullets in my Sharps that the raw power of the 375 Holland was a shock.

I appreciate the time you have given me on this subject. When I am closer to getting started I will discuss it in depth with you to see if it is something that you have an interest in.

I still can't get a PM to go through so I had to post this one on the forum.

Thanks again for your time,
Josh

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Stonewall
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Reged: 09/09/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #56060 - 29/04/06 11:53 PM

Josh -try to see and handle any of these rifles done by Martini & Hagn if you can - pictures don't do them justice at all. I've had the pleasure of talking to Ralf Martini several times at the Calgary gunshow .This time I picked up " Custom Guns" from him. A friend owns at least three of these single shots that I have yet to shoot. I remember thinking when I handled the first rifle (a .270 single shot that was for another customer) that $ 25,000 US seemed quite a reasonable price for this work of art -the next thought through my mind was just what I would like ! I appreciate that I was allowed to handle these rifles at the show instead of just looking at them passing by. You will not be dissapointed. Talk to them and see what they have in ideas on caliber -I'm sure they have some ideas you might not have considered. I'm sure something exceptional can be done in a reasonable price range with a bit of thought.
Glenn

Edited by Stonewall (30/04/06 12:14 AM)

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Stonewall]
      #56888 - 11/05/06 11:23 AM

Glenn, I appreciate your insight. I am going to do my best to touch one of the Hagns before I start this project. What I am really after is an understated best quality working rifle that I can spend the next 30 years hunting with on a daily basis. I have decided that having lots of mediocre factory rifles is much inferior to having one or two superb rifles.

Thanks for the help,
S

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #56900 - 11/05/06 02:37 PM

In my opinion, the Hagn is the best singleshot being made today. I'm working on having one built, but still have to balance hunting funds and gun building funds. Hunting funds seem to win over new guns everytime for me. However, I have handled quite a few Hagns and have spoke with Ralf Martini at length while at the ACGG show a few years ago. Their rifles are the epitomy of grace in your hands. Nothing comes close, as far as singleshots go.

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: DPhillips]
      #56978 - 12/05/06 10:40 AM

DPhil., it looks like there is a Hagn in my future. I am to the point in my life that one or two perfect rifles are preferable to the vault full of factory jobs.

My only real decision at this point is caliber. Its going to get used daily for maybe 10 years before I go to Africa and I had hoped that I could do a 9lb 375 Holland that would end with me kiilling a Cape Buffalo with it. I've been shooting a .375 Ruger #1 and even with reduced loads the recoil is a bit much. So I may end up with a 300 Win. and hunt plains game. I just don't know yet.

I am going to make the ACGG show in Reno in Jan. and try to make some decisions. I've been corresponding with Steve Hughes on the rifle and it looks like we may come to an agreement.

Any input that you more experienced guys have I would appreciate.

Thanks,
S

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bulldog563
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #56980 - 12/05/06 10:49 AM

How much does your Ruger weigh?

Personally I think my 338 kicks more then my 375 H&H. For one the 338 is in a lighter rifle but also the recoil velocity feels much greater then the 375.

I think a 375 Hagn would be a beautiful rifle. To tame the recoil a bit you could add some weight.

I bet in the time it takes to build the rifle you could develope your recoil tolerance.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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rgp
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #56981 - 12/05/06 10:52 AM

"My only real decision at this point is caliber. Its going to get used daily for maybe 10 years before I go to Africa and I had hoped that I could do a 9lb 375 Holland that would end with me kiilling a Cape Buffalo with it. I've been shooting a .375 Ruger #1 and even with reduced loads the recoil is a bit much. So I may end up with a 300 Win. and hunt plains game. I just don't know yet."

Sharps,

If you have Hagn build a complete rifle for you, they can make you one with interchangable barrels. The price might be high enough though that buying two rifles would be appealing.

Richard

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DPhillips
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: rgp]
      #56982 - 12/05/06 10:57 AM

It certainly is a quandry to decide on the chambering. I've been flip-flopping on that very subject for the past 1 1/2 years now...

I'm really thinking hard about a 7x75 Vom Hofe, right now, or a 275 H&H Mag. Or...

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
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Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: DPhillips]
      #56985 - 12/05/06 11:17 AM

Wow, its strange how you guy's posts have hit two of my rifles principles. One is that it must be chambered in a very common caliber, no wildcats. Another is that there must be no extraneous rifle weight. No mercury tubes, etc. nothing that is not working on the rifle can add to the weight. So if the rifle should weigh 9lbs. without a scope for me to tolerate the recoil, all that weight must be built into the barrel, action, and stock to balance the weight.

I shoot the 375 nearly everyday and I have decided that I reallly like the power. I am not much of a long range sniper-type-guy but I like to be on top of every living thing on my side of 300yds. I would like to be able to do that in a 375.

Any thoughts appreciated,
S

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starman
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Reged: 23/08/05
Posts: 53
Loc: nsw
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #56995 - 12/05/06 01:20 PM

SHARPS,
Went to Reno to see the hartmannWeiss as well as the Hagn lads.
In my mind the Hagn reciever is the finest falling block in exhistence.
I cannot criticise the choice of 375H&H, but one round that suites the Euro origin Hagn to a T, is the 9.3x74r.
It can be made into a lighter rig(easily under 9lb scoped)
I particularly like the rim of the 9.3 cause it affords such a positive grip when pulling rounds out of a cartridge belt.
With a trim 26" tube and strong fallingblock action,the 9.3x74r has great potential.
Nosler quotes their 9.3x74 286gn factory load at 2430fps (24" barrel?)
As much as I appreciate the 375H&H, be it single ,double,or superb bolt like the HartmannWeiss magnum mauser, I find it very hard to pass up a more trim/ carry all day 9.3x74r or Std.98-9.3x62.


Edited by starman (12/05/06 07:42 PM)

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: starman]
      #57073 - 13/05/06 08:48 AM

The reason I rulled out chamberings like the 9.3's is I want this rifle chambered in a widely available round. It may be one of the few high end customs I do in my life and I don't want scrounge ammunition if I get into a far off land. The same for the 375 flanged, it makes good sense in a single shot, but its a specialty case. The other problem is I am in Texas and what if my friends saw me with a rifle chambered for some foreign round? It could get ugly.

S

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belgmart
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Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #57109 - 14/05/06 04:51 AM

Sharps,
Just don't forget that the .375 also is a foreign round, certainly not of US origin... And what is not common in 1 part of the world, might well be in another.

--------------------
Martini's Rule!

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Sharps
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Texas
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: belgmart]
      #57127 - 14/05/06 10:54 AM

Belgmart, I know the .375 is sort of foreign. But I am pretty sure the English guy that invented it ended up in Texas. That 9.3 is so....metric and I took quite a few beatings from nuns during the '70's over the metric system. I do know that I can walk into many feed stores in Texas and buy .375 ammunition. Actually, that gives me an idea.

For you guys that don't live in Texas, what are the commonly availaible calibers in your area? I'm mostly interested in US and huntable Africa like RSA, Namibia, Botswana, etc.

The preliminary work with the .375 Ruger #1 is progressing well. I have put about 600 rounds down range through it and I have decided that much of my recoil tolerance problem is related to stock design. I think now that an iron sighted .375 at 9lbs. that actuallly fits me is a doable rifle.

Thanks for any input,
Sharps

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Hagn single shot [Re: Sharps]
      #57160 - 15/05/06 03:37 AM

In reply to:

For you guys that don't live in Texas, what are the commonly availaible calibers in your area? I'm mostly interested in US and huntable Africa like RSA, Namibia, Botswana, etc.



In Southern Africa the 9.3x62 will probably be more common than the 375 Holland.

No accounting for what's in Texas.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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