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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
375 recoil ?
      #50603 - 23/02/06 05:35 AM

I read a post on AR forum from ravenr asking what to do to reduce recoil.
Follow a list of gizmos apt or not to diminish the felt recoil.
Then I remember what I read in Craig Boddington's (excellent) book “Shots at big game” chapter “Start ‘Em out right” : quote :”I started my stepson on the bench with a little .243 and he shot extremely well. He’s a big kid, half again my size (5’8”) but he didn’t grow-up shooting, and, LIKE MANY BIG MEN, RECOIL IS HARD ON HIM. Today he’ll shoot my .375 when he has to, but he doesn’t even pretend to like it.”

What's Your opinion?

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: larcher]
      #50605 - 23/02/06 05:43 AM

You gotta roll with the punches.

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: 500grains]
      #50612 - 23/02/06 06:51 AM

I think there is something to the theory that big guys can be more beat up by recoil. There is more mass to get moving so the big guy absorbs more intial recoil. Since felt recoil is realy force over time I think big guys can feel it more.

But you can learn to roll with the punches, as 500 Grains put it.

JPK

I'll add that nothing enhances felt recoil more than a high seat at a low bench and shooting at stationary paper targets.

Edited by JPK (23/02/06 06:54 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: larcher]
      #50613 - 23/02/06 06:54 AM


IMHO, if people spent time getting the stocks of the
bigger guns CORRECT FOR THEM, this would go part
of the way to reducing felt recoil.

Then if recoil was still an issue they put a small amount of
money into a Recoil Reducer, Decelerator Pad etc etc, this
would further help.

Also, in general people go for "hot" loads whereas if they started
off with slightly less powerful loads and work up, they would then
find they could handle the rifle better.

And lastly, if people practised shooting from a standing rest
instead of a bench rest, they would not end up with nearly as bad
a fear / flinch.

When I first purchased a 30-06, it kicked the shit out of me from
a bench. I can now shoot up to 600 Nitros without a problem
by fixing what was wrong.

500 Nitro

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: 500grains]
      #50614 - 23/02/06 06:57 AM

I'll agree with most men on this forum regarding recoil. Most men can can handle everything up to and including a .470 NE. I do belive it has been stated that any of the .500s and the .458 Lott is where the pain begins. Also as many have stated, you can become accustom to the recoil, just like an areobatic pilot gets his "sea legs" by doing more areobatics. That said, I usally don't shoot my 470 more than 6 times at one time, as to not develop a flinch.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: bonanza]
      #50621 - 23/02/06 07:50 AM

I think it is a matter of getting used to the recoil. 500nitro you are so correct with, gon't shoot of a bench, the recoil is at least twice than when you are standing. I have a Sako 375 and my daughter weighing only 55 kg is shooting it. Standing she can shoot less than a 2 inch group at 50 meters. If she can do it anybody else can also do it.

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Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: larcher]
      #50625 - 23/02/06 08:29 AM

Many people shooting from a bench square-off with the stock and target, making their stationary mass take the recoil. Any day at the range, this is evident, along with the resulting flinching. The body must absorb a great deal of the total recoil before it begins to move, which helps disapates the remaining force.
: If a person sits in a more sideways position, the shoulder and head move more easily, which helps aborbs the shock & converting it into more of a rolling punch. I personally find the .30 cal magnums kick more than the .375H&H, due to their 'sharp' recoil & generally lighter weight.
: When a person shoots standing, the body rolls with the punch, which disapates the recoil. It is the best way of practising anyway. Free standing and standing with a rest on a tree or vertical roof support, with the back of the hand resting against the support. Never place the rifle's stock against a solid object as the shot will be thrown away from that object, be it left or right depending on which side the stock is touching. This goes for a suport underneath the stock as well. It must be padded with a soft object, be it your hat, hand or heavy glove.
: Most people can hit reasonably well sitting at a bench, but there are few benches in the field. Offhand practise is where time is best spent - the best of both worlds of reducing recoil and practising in positions more akin to hunting situations. Kneeling is another position that needs to be practised and which also is a good recoil absorber. Any position where the body is free to move, helps with the heavy kickers, just as 500gr. and .500Nitro said.
: Start close and increase the range as skill is aquired.
: Reducing loads is another way of developing a 'shoulder' that is recoil resistant. Increase the loads as the preceding ones become tame. Some manuals like Speer, list 'reduced' loads which are easy kickers in each calibre.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SuperX
.224 member


Reged: 26/01/06
Posts: 13
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: 500grains]
      #50626 - 23/02/06 08:31 AM

".....You gotta roll with the punches...."

Exactly! I agree 100%.

I know a Gal about 5'6", 110#, and she can handle 375 level recoil just fine, and, will out shoot most men off-hand.

My advice? Get a good grip on the rifle, hold it firmly to your shoulder, and let your whole body "roll" and gradually absorb the recoil. Most shooter stiffen up, brace themselves "against" the gun, try to keep the rifle from moving as it fires (and the stronger the shooter the more they are able to do that), as a result all the energy is absorbed by the shoulder/contact area (their brain gets a pretty good rattle as well)..... And yes, that can be very painful.


Edited by SuperX (23/02/06 11:37 AM)

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: SuperX]
      #50650 - 23/02/06 02:00 PM

I think recoil is an acquired taste. The more shooting you do the less recoil is likely to bother you - right up until the gun hurts you that is. When that happens it can be difficult for your brain to get past the association of "what you are about to do is going to hurt you". This can be brought on in ways other than by the recoil we feel on the shoulder. You could get tagged by the scope on a hard kicking rifle, the front swivel could cut your hand, or perhaps the knuckle of your shooting hand gets wrapped by the rear of the trigger guard...all of these things can lead to a flinch. The only flinch cure I am aware of is to start shooting lesser rifles and work your way back to the big stuff.

I think most people can be trained to shoot a properly stocked .30-06. If they are unable to do this they will probably never progress to the point that they could shoot a .375 well, never mind anything bigger. The new shooter simply must accept that these things are designed to be used by normal people. I remember a fellow who wanted to shoot my .416 Rigby, and I assumed - incorrectly that he had heavy rifle experience. I was just about to yell STOP when he fired. My handloads pushed a 350 gr. X over 2800 fps, and as a result the rifle had a little push to it. When he fired I could see daylight between the recoil pad and his shoulder. He has never wanted to shoot a powerful rifle since.

As to stock fit - it is absolutely critical. The most painful rifle I ever shot was a little Mosin Nagant carbine in 7.62X54R. If I had not had experience with other rifles prior to shooting that thing, I would of just gone back to shooting a 6.5 Swede, believing that shooting powerful rifles was beyond me.

--------------------

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: SuperX]
      #50674 - 24/02/06 01:28 AM

Cindy Garret???

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: larcher]
      #50677 - 24/02/06 01:52 AM

I've known a great many small guys and medium-size guys, as well as some very big men of large frame, who could shoot rifles of heavy recoil (375 H&H and up) very well indeed, without flinching.

I've also known guys of all sizes who couldn't shoot a 22LR well without flinching........

In my opinion, the ability to handle recoil comes from having the right mental outlook, and from experience. If you are a trained, experienced, practiced rifleman who loves to shoot, and who always has the right game face on, you'll do well with rifles of heavy recoil, no matter your size.

Mental attitude is a very big deal. As it says in Proverbs 23:7, "For as he thinks within himself, so he is."

AD

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: allenday]
      #50684 - 24/02/06 02:57 AM

This was posted on AR by retreever;

"It is isometric exercises and it works..
My forend hand pushes the rifle into my shoulder...my pistol grip hand pushes it away from the shoulder...The rifle is against the shoulder just like a firm handshake...The hands are holding the rifle with a crushing handshake...Your arms are flexed and tensed, just like showing off your muscles...When fired your arms take the recoil like shockabsorbers...
This takes practice to perfect, but I can tell you from experience the rifle only goes up about 6 inches and is right back ready to fire is a sec...I fired 14 shots in an hour and no bruising or soreness face or shoulder...I did have a video clip of me firing three rapid fire shots at 25yds and they were all inside of a 6inch circle in 6 seconds...Wife shot it with camera...
I have a 990 decelerator pad and I use those hand wrist strengtheners to get grip strong.."

He said it is very effective. Haven't tried it yet.

I do think that big guys get beat up more by recoil because it takes a lot more to get them moving.

Allen has the right idea aswell as Dan and 500 Nitro.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

Edited by bulldog563 (24/02/06 02:58 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: bulldog563]
      #50689 - 24/02/06 03:25 AM


Anyone who has not seen a close up video of someone shooting
a big bore WITHOUT A shirt on should do so.

It is a real eye opener in regards to the process of recoil
and what happens to your neck, head, muscles, shoulder, arms etc.

You can see why the ? rotator cuff ? muscle etc can get damaged.

Havy continuos use of big bores is not going to be good for you
regardless of the padding used or how well you "handle" recoil.

After all, the recoil is still there and the energy has to go somewhere.

500 Nitro

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #50696 - 24/02/06 04:20 AM

I agree with the stock fit. My brno 375 is a joy to shoot, but I had a rem 700 in 7mm Rem Mag that beat the crap out of me. I promptly sold it. By the way, I'm 6'1" and 225 lbs.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #50700 - 24/02/06 04:52 AM

Adam - That isn't my old BRNO is it? Your name is very familiar to me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: DarylS]
      #50701 - 24/02/06 05:22 AM

Daryl,

I have 2: One I bought at the Kamloops gun show two years ago and the owner lived in Abbotsford at the time. It came with dies, brass, and ammo and if I remember was made in '84. The second one I picked up last year, with the pop up peep and Jena QD scope. It was on consignment at a store in Chilliwack and was made in the early 70's. Both have the deluxe stock. I heard of one up in PG at the same store where you picked up your Brno 600 7x57. Was that yours?

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #50704 - 24/02/06 05:28 AM

Mine was an Early 70's, made prior to 1974. I roiginally bought it in Smither's B.C., but sold it to a guy in Vancouver who mainly hutned small deer on Vancouver Island. It had the pop-up peep sight and was glassed in white, 2-ton epoxy. I gave the guy who bought it, the original .358 Norma Mag barrel with it. It had dies for each, along with brass.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: DarylS]
      #50705 - 24/02/06 05:30 AM


In regards to recoil of big bores, here is an example
of the difference between guns.

Here is a comparison between 4 of the 500 Nitro doubles I own / have owned
which are as follows

1. Army & Navy (Webley action), 27" Barrels, 12lb. 12oz Slightly barrel heavy Thin Stock, Greater drop at comb
2. Army & Navy (Webley action), 27" Barrels, 12lb. 12oz Barrel heavy Thick Stock
3. Westley Richards, 22" Barrels, 11lb 5oz Very well balanced Thick Stock
4. Joseph Lang (Webley action), 27" Barrels, 11lb. 11oz Very well balanced Thin Stock

No 1 which has a thin stock and a Greater drop at comb and as a result
is a bit of a prick to shoot as it is hard to get your cheek down
as the comb is a bit low. As a result it tends to "kick" up a bit.

No 2 with the Thick Stock is an identical rifle to No 1 but is far more pleasant to shoot
with everything else being equal (loads etc). Since No 1 and No 2 are a matched pair in all respects
except the stock, it is a great comparison.

No 3 is great to shoot and very well balanced - it feel like 8lbs in your hands.

No 4, the Joseph Lang felt "heavier" than No 3 even though it is only 6 oz heavier
but being well balanced it just "hangs" there when at the shoulder. However you still
know you are carrying it after a day.

Hope this provides some insights into felt recoil.

500 Nitro

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: larcher]
      #51571 - 05/03/06 10:43 PM

Managing recoil is an acquired taste.

I would rather shoot a standard 375 with a decent stock than a lightweight 300 mag. I have a lightweight custom REM 300 ultramag that is absolutely viscous.Lightweight overbores with large powder capacity do that.It hits you like a fastball and you cannot "contain" it.

The big bores are more like a push and I am assuming the recoil velocity is less and the impulse is spread further over time.Shooting reduced loads helps.When the moment of truth comes I cannot remember the recoil. Your mind simply has higher priorities.

Overbores are fun but big bores are a blast if they fit you properly.As one poster on this forum says--Big Bores and big holes for big animals


--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51577 - 06/03/06 01:15 AM

The idea of watching a video of someone shooting a big bore is a good one, but what is even better is if you can arrange for a video to be made of yourself shooting a big bore. Watch the video in slow motion or frame advance and you will really see what is happening. This can be a very useful learning tool.

--------------------

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: Boomer]
      #51645 - 06/03/06 08:28 PM

Not me: Hep dancing with his 10-bore! ...but you get the idea!



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: Marrakai]
      #52019 - 10/03/06 02:22 PM

500Nitro says:

Anyone who has not seen a close up video of someone shooting a big bore WITHOUT A shirt on should do so.

Sorry, but I can't resist.....

First question - is that watching the video without a shirt?

Second question - do you like Gladiator movies?



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SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: 375 recoil ? [Re: Grizzly]
      #52384 - 14/03/06 10:41 AM

Sh-t, that IS funny!!! hahahahaa.... I just remebered that airplane movie to some family members over the weekend. And yes the line we all talked about was the gladiator line... hahhaa.... But getting back to topic---I think my 870 shooting 3 inch mags slugs, kicks considerably sharper and harder than my 300 win mag with 180 grainers and my double barrel slug gun shooting the same 3 innch mag slugs. My 870 even has a 1 inch recoil suppressor pad while my double slug gun has apuny 1/4 inch factory rubber thingy. Both have the same LOP too. Strange, that animal called (felt) recoil.

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