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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment?
      #50262 - 19/02/06 01:49 AM

Well, what do you think?

AD

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AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #50267 - 19/02/06 02:23 AM

I think if you got it, flaunt it!

I don't so I will have to deal with being a bolt rifle shooter but am 'ok' with that.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #50269 - 19/02/06 02:33 AM

I think some are great investments that will always keep there value and some will only depreciate a little but never like a car or truck or other high priced toys like boats and such.I wish i could have bought a double years ago when they were pennies on the dollar compared to todays prices..Look at what they cost in the 1950s catalogs!
One things for sure you cant take money with you when you go & were not getting any younger- buy one now and be glad you did later on down the road- and a good double is one of the greatest insurance polices you can ever own,it could save your life or your friends.....Lots of folks dont think nothing of spending thousands on trucks and boats that will allways depreciate ,but squawk like a duck when they see the price of a good double....I think my little doublerifle has doubled in over the counterprice since i bought it a few short years ago....Also TOP quality and experinced craftsmanship always cost in any trade or product,its an investment in quality workmanship!A double rifle to me is also gunbuilders artwork!Just my opinion!Needless to say a double rifle is my favorite!

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #50270 - 19/02/06 02:33 AM

It depends on what you mean by worth. If the investment makes them kill any better no,they don't, if the investment makes you shoot any better maybe, If it just plain pleases you to own and use one definitely. I currently own only one a Merkel 470NE, but have over the last 10 years have owned up to 3 at a time. It also depends on what you mean by INVESTMENT. I have not LOST any money on doubles but haven't made any either It's mostly been a wash for me. I much prefer stocks or bonds for INVESTMENT. It's kinda like a house to me if you buy it as an investment it's one thing but if you buy it to LIVE in it's another. I buy doubles cause I LIKE them and hope I never have to sell them so worth really doesn't enter into the equation for me.

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: zimhunter]
      #50274 - 19/02/06 03:08 AM

They are a superior elephant rifle without any doubt, generally superior buffalo rifle, though there may be times when a longer shot than I will ever want to shoot with open sights will be offered - then the QD scoped DR has appeal, or have the tracker carry your scoped rifle, if its that far away you will likely have plenty of time to switch.

In any follow up or unexpected oh s--t situation the DR is far superior, here Blackbearhunter has it right. Add in that if you do your homework you can end up with a rifle that will not cost anything to own in the mid term or long term and maybe make you some $'s and the obvious answer is heck yes. But learning or relearning to shoot open sights is a required investment in time too.

Others love their less than stopper calibre doubles for hunting all animals. If it floats their boat, thats great but I don't personally see any advantage - or disadvantage.

My 2 cents,

JPK

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #50276 - 19/02/06 03:26 AM

yes.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #50301 - 19/02/06 11:01 AM

An entry level double costs no more than a good bolt gun. Either is worth it, but let your preferences decide.

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: 500grains]
      #50318 - 19/02/06 06:01 PM

I guess that depends on what you call a "good" bolt gun, Dan. As you know, Hein will build you a damn nice bolt rifle for around $7K by the time all is said and done. I suppose a Ryan Breeding rifle will cost you about double that. Do you think these levels of quality are respectively comparable to the Merkel or Searcy Classic doubles? I, for one, doubt it. Frankly, I'm not so sure there is anything "rational" surrounding the purchase of a double. They cost a lot more for a given level of quality than bolt guns, aren't as strong, aren't as accurate and amount to an EXTREMELY specialized tool. That said, they DO offer two shots quicker than any other option...that, along with the sentimental notions that surround them, makes them worth it to some. How I wish I could afford to be one of these people!

Best,

John

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #50338 - 20/02/06 06:57 AM

Its all good.

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50341 - 20/02/06 07:44 AM

Colorado,

In reply to:

They are expensive to purchase and both expensive and painful to shoot.



Painful to shoot? I would not hunt ANY game with a rifle that is "painful" to shoot. If your double hurts you, I would suggest either getting it properly fitted to you or trading it off for a lighter NE cartridge.

As far as investing, no doubles aren't worth the investment since they seldom make you any significant money ie small ROI (return on investment). I have one double left, but hunt almost exclusively with magnum length mauser bolt guns. That is my preference only, and has nothing to do with anyone/anything else.

Scott

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: ScottS]
      #50347 - 20/02/06 08:28 AM


colorado,

Although I end to agree with your thoughts of the DG as a tool,
it is one of the few "toys" that you can purchase that generally
maintains it's value if not increases in value - as long as you didn't
pay way over the top for it in the first place. (we're talking old english
here, not Merkel, Chapuis, Searcy etc).

This generally can't be said for Sports cars, Boats, Harley Davidson's etc.

But in the end, it is a tool to be used.

500 Nitro

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: ScottS]
      #50371 - 20/02/06 02:07 PM

They are.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50375 - 20/02/06 03:10 PM


colorado

Why do you shoot Big Bores / DR's from a bench ?

It's the worst possible way to test fire a Big Bores / DR's.

Have you used a Standing rest ?

They are much more confortable and just as easy to use as a bench

Also, if the range doesn't have a permanent one, a temporary / non permanent one
is easy to set up.

Makes handling the recoil a hell of a lot easier.


500 Nitro

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3548
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50377 - 20/02/06 03:19 PM

colorado:
In reply to:

it is about the most impractical shooting gun you can own


I think you have just discovered the folly of buying a heavy hitter as your first (?) (...and only?) double rifle. Doubles in the medium calibres (9.3 to .400) are sweet-shooting lively hunting rifles which are a genuine pleasure to carry and hunt with. They are marvellous killers and make great general hunting rifles for medium game, at least in my neck of the woods. Many of us hunt with double rifles by preference. I rarely use bolt-guns these days, preferring doubles up to .577 for everything, and I am neither wealthy nor a fool, thanks.

Buying one big double, for the reasons you hint at, and then letting it hurt you, won't make you an expert on the use of doubles for hunting IMHO. Get that .450 out in the field and belt a few hogs or deer in the river bottoms, and you will soon appreciate the virtues of a double rifle for hunting. Better still, stop fooling yourself. Trade it on a medium calibre double and start enjoying your shooting again.


--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50396 - 21/02/06 12:27 AM

I shoot frequently from a sitting bench and experience no pain. The largest double I have ever fired was a 577 NE. I usually only shoot 500 Jeffery Improved and 500 A Sqaure, both bolt guns weighing ~ 10.5 pounds. Twenty five to thirty rounds from the bench isn't painful, to the shoulder anyway. Now if you are talking about bleeding elbows and headaches that is a different story. I assumed you meant shoulder.

Scott

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: ScottS]
      #50413 - 21/02/06 03:57 AM

I use a sissy sand band on my shoulder, so that does not hurt. Its the headaches, busted finger (two triggers) and thumb in the nose issues that cause me pain. I can handle the recoil standing on my shoulder without much fuss. But benching, I have to have the sissy bang or I will flinch all day long. E. Brown displays a neat recoil bag in his book that I would like to get. It flops over your shoulder and is about 6 inches wide. It looks like it grips the butt well too.

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: Marrakai]
      #50417 - 21/02/06 04:22 AM

Again thanks.

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #50420 - 21/02/06 04:42 AM

500Nitro,
Thanks.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50426 - 21/02/06 05:31 AM


Colorado

"I'm still learning, I admit that."

We all are, and anyone who says otherwise is full of BS !!!


Re Standing rest, we now have one on our range, however, with a Jury rigged one,
I have found the key is to have not only a steady rest for your forearm BUT ALSO
something solid to push your Stomach and thigh against and in some cases
something solid for your LEFT thigh to lean against.

For the rest for your forearm, I have found a Camera Bipod to be good with
a sand bag on top.

500 Nitro

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markhyoung
.224 member


Reged: 31/10/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Cody, WY, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #50817 - 25/02/06 06:32 AM

Allen,

You do know how to reheat a controversy. Although the folks posting here have been pretty well behaved with no threats of bodily injury etc.

As for the question if you can find a good british double at a fair price it probably is a good financial investment. As a hunting tool for the average safari hunter I think they are a poor investment. First off I think people often buy a double thinking that it will enhance their total experience because a double is so much a part of the African hunting mystique. Also all the stories of bullet proof buffalo charging at close range enhance the feeling that a big bore doulbe is necessary. I think what people find is that the double is such a specialized tool that it isn't even always the best choice for elephant and buffalo. Not only that they are incredibly expensive to buy and shoot.

For a guy who has shot some buffalo, elephant and wants to add a differnet element to his hunts a double is perfect as long as he realizes its limitations. For the first time DG safari hunter I think purchasing a double is folly. People call me on a pretty regular basis asking about short buffalo hunts and in the next breath they want to know what double to buy. To me this makes no sense. I always tell people to put their money into daily, trophy fees and buy a good scoped 375.

Don't get me wrong I'm a gun crank too and I'd love to have a couple of sexy doubles but when I weigh the cost against trophy fees for my next safari I just can't justify it. Sadie said it best when we looked at some doubles and I actually was entertaining the thoughts of buying one. She said "You know if we buy that rifle we'll have to put off our next safari for another year?" It only took that statement from a staunch supporter of our hunting to bring me back ot reality.

I guess for me the bottom line is if a double really trips your trigger you probably should buy it but buy it because you want it not because it is really necessary for the job.

Regards,

Mark

--------------------
Mark H. Young
ADAM CLEMENTS SAFARI TRACKERS INC.
WORLDWIDE BIG GAME, WINGSHOOTING AND PHOTO SAFARIS
www.safaritrackers.com
Office 1-307-587-6372
FAX 1-307-587-3385


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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: markhyoung]
      #50820 - 25/02/06 06:47 AM

Most aptly put.

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50824 - 25/02/06 07:21 AM

Agreed, very well said.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: bulldog563]
      #50841 - 25/02/06 10:49 AM

Allen,
Just come out of the closet, get yourself a double.

Or.

Next time you do a hog hunt in Texas, let me know.
If at all possible I will let you hunt with one of my doubles.

Or even better, go on our next DRSS hunt.
You could shoot and handle @ 10 or more doubles.
You can use one of my doubles on that hunt too.

You can bring some of your nice Bolt Rifles, we like them too.

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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: markhyoung]
      #50899 - 26/02/06 09:59 AM

Indeed this poses a litmus test for the perspective African hunter. Firstly I must say that in my opinion a double rifle is a very specialized tool. A specialized tool can often do more than one thing well, but not as well as tools which are designed to be more general in their implementation. As a professional hunter's stopping rifle the double has no peer, but for the client, particularly the one gun client, it would certainly take a back seat to a scoped bolt gun on plains game. Therefore let me say that if the double is without a peer in the hands of the professional, then the scoped medium bore bolt gun is without a peer in the hands of his client. But on to the test....

If you are going on a 7 or 10 day hunt because you cannot afford a 21 day hunt, a double is not for you. I would say that if you can afford the 21 day hunt, but have only shot bolt guns, going up against buffalo or elephant is not the time to learn about doubles. If you already own a double, if you shoot it enough to be comfortable with it, if you have already hunted with it, and you plan to take more than one rifle with you to Africa - then a double would probably fill a niche quite nicely.

--------------------



Edited by Boomer (26/02/06 10:00 AM)

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oupa
.300 member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Are double rifles REALLY worth the investment? [Re: allenday]
      #51141 - 02/03/06 02:50 AM

YES

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