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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Homemade DR tested
      #49704 - 10/02/06 11:33 PM

Gentlemen,

I want to report that yesterday I finally had the opportunity to test my project gun. For those not familiar, I am building a DR chambered for .444 Marlin using a former Beretta 411 pidgeon gun frame.
Given the previous discussions on proof loads and how to do it, I made my set up using a pallet and firing from a distance. During the test, the gun showed no looseness or any other issue. Later, at home, I measured everything again (having measured it before), and confirmed that it had no dimensional changes (gaps, chambers, etc).
The cartridges showed classic signs of overpressure, but even so I have no problems to extract the shells after firing.
Now my next step is to load a few more rounds (regular load development this time), and then regulate the gun.
I would like to thank everyone for the inputs on this procedure. I was much more confident and better informed after that discussion. I hope this also helps other gun builders in the future.

Fred

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #49715 - 11/02/06 12:37 AM

Good for you Fred!

Post some photos of your project under way, let's see those proof load cases too.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #49729 - 11/02/06 03:19 AM

Fred,

I second Tinker. Please post pictures - I am sure you have much reason to be proud of your work.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #49734 - 11/02/06 04:19 AM

Thanks guys,

I will try to take some pics this weekend and post them. It is not ready yet, there are tons of work ahead (finishing, wood, etc), but I will post it anyway.

Fred

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #49747 - 11/02/06 11:21 AM

Is this a scratched build on the barrels or did you sleave them? I have my own DG project in the works right now, should get it back end of the month.

Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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45s_save_lives
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Reged: 12/11/05
Posts: 34
Loc: west by god virginia, currentl...
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #49768 - 12/02/06 04:49 AM

I am planning a similar project in the not to distant future myself. However I want to use a Ruger Gold Label frame and make it in a British Caliber (not sure which one yet), and I am also flexable on the frame too I would just like to use the ruger. I ordered the book "building double rifles on shotgun actions" by an author named Brown. Any good sources of info or tips you could provide would be greatly appreciated thanks. Cant wait to see the pics!

--------------------
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #49782 - 12/02/06 07:58 AM

My next project will be to build one the CZ-USA 12ga action. They are hell for stout, side lock, case harden, three bite actions and good quaility. The best part is that they are only about $750.00 new. I thought about older Greeners, and such, although strong actions, half of the them are worn out and can't take the loads. My idea is to keep the gun under $1500.00 total investment.

Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #49790 - 12/02/06 11:01 AM


I have built several double rifles on shotgun actions and though I have never checked one out I have been told that the Ruger double is not strong enough for these projects. I posted a thread on building doubles a bit ago and it should be in here some where check it out and if you have questions give me a call. My # is 207-938-3595 and I have brought my past posts up to present it is under building double rifles.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
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Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #49791 - 12/02/06 11:04 AM

The CZ(Huglu) actions work great. The father in law just built a 30-40 Krag on a 20 gauge action. He really liked the 9.3x74r I recently finished and decided he'd like the Krag in a DR. He actually took a doe with it here in PA this year and the barrels were still in the white. After he decided he wanted to build one we looked around at the local gunshop and he got a good deal on the CZ Amarillo which is a design for cowboy action shooters but it has double triggers and a pistol grip stock and got it all for about $500. You might want to check one out. He wasn't interested in keeping the shotgun barrels so we cut them off and sleeved them with the rifle barrels.

Have fun and when I finally pick up a new digital camera I'll take some pics.

BB

P.S.- I wouldn't build a DR on a goldlabel. They lack in the lock-up department.

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4seventy
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: Judson]
      #49793 - 12/02/06 12:57 PM

In reply to:

I have been told that the Ruger double is not strong enough for these projects.


Judson
Interesting. In what area is the Ruger not strong enough?
In my experience Ruger builds all their stuff really tough and strong.
I have never looked over a gold label SxS though.
Are they not as strong as red label O/U Rugers?

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4seventy
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #49794 - 12/02/06 12:59 PM

Fred,
Sounds great, well done.
Would love to see some photos and hear more about the rifle.

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: 4seventy]
      #49800 - 12/02/06 01:37 PM

4seventy,

I'm not Judson but I've spent quite a bit of time hunting with a gold label this past season. In fact I wrote a small blurb on my inital thoughts on it in the shotgun forum. Anyway they seem plenty strong for a shotgun shell however they have only 1 bite in the gun and it isn't an overly large bite at that.

Purely a guess but I'd say it's no where near as strong as the red labels. I do know that for the $1,500 they sell for around here I think they aren't a good deal. Though I've been thinking about buying a couple and selling them on Gunbroker as they routinely sell for $1,800-$2,000 there. That would be a cool $300-$500 profit on each gun. At that rate pretty soon I'd be able to buy a production double instead of building my own.

BB

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: banzaibird]
      #49818 - 12/02/06 09:52 PM

Banzaibird,
I had a look at the gold label on the Ruger site and while it's hard to tell much just from photos the frame does look pretty light.
I agree that it doesn't appear anywhere near as strong as the red label.

In reply to:

when I finally pick up a new digital camera I'll take some pics.



Looking forward to photos of those doubles too!


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Judson
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: 4seventy]
      #49833 - 13/02/06 10:37 AM


Like I said I have not looked at the Ruger but have been told it is not all that strong as far as rifles go.
What you are looking for is an action with double under lugs, double bites and either a hidden third fastner or a Greener style, (preferably round) cross bolt. Even with these features you still want to check the proof marks and see if it will take the pressure and in all cases if using a shot gun action keep your chamberings to low pressure cartridges. A .375 H&H on a shot gun frame for example is not a smart way to go. My .450 # 2 is built on a French action and though it has double under lugs it is only single bite with a hidden fastener however it is a very massive bite and the 450 # 2 is very low pressure like 25,000 so it has worked out fine. If you figure out the pressure of the 450 compaired to the origional 16 gauge chambering and proof loads the 450 comes in well below the 16 ga. proof load. Even so you must always re proof the gun from some sort of a fixture where you aint holding it!!!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: Judson]
      #49965 - 14/02/06 11:58 PM

Gentlemen,

Here are some pictures of my gun









Edited by doublegunfan (15/02/06 01:14 AM)

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #49977 - 15/02/06 01:56 AM

Looking pretty good so far there...


Have fun with it!



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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doublegunfan
.275 member


Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
Loc: Brazil
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: tinker]
      #50127 - 16/02/06 10:54 PM

My next step is to regulate the gun. My first shots show right-left separated by 5-6 inches, but they are more or less on the same horizontal plane. Wish me luck.

Fred

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #50137 - 17/02/06 01:23 AM

Nice.

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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
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Loc: Brazil
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50142 - 17/02/06 01:44 AM

Colorado,

I didn't build them. The barrels were custom made in Argentina. I don't know the manufacturer's name, but I have seen other barrels he made, mostly for Mausers, and they are very well made and very accurate. Then, it was just a matter of fitting them to the existing block by turning them on a lathe.
Brown's book is a must for anyone intending to make a project like this. There are a few differences from his method and my project, but he gives very good guidance. I also miss a few more details on some topics, like what outside diameter to have on a barrel, or how to fit a scope mount on a double, and maybe some alternate constructions, like an adjustable regulation system, which may be beneficial in some calibres.
I think that his book is very good in how to evaluate a shotgun action for the purposes of DR building. During the past months, this book and Graeme Wright's "Shooting the British Double", have been my constant references and helped me on critical decisions. Hope it will also help you.

Fred

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
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Humm. [Re: doublegunfan]
      #50145 - 17/02/06 01:50 AM

Sweet.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50167 - 17/02/06 11:07 AM

Ellis Brown went to a lot of trouble to make a concave roller tool to form the profile of the under-rib for his .450 double! Whew!

A concave lower rib can be easily made by cutting a thin strip length-wise out of a length of suitable-diameter steel tubing. A gunsmith friend of mine Vic P_ did just that last week, on a sleeved DR which arrived for regulating with only the top-rib!





--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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doublegunfan
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 60
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50197 - 17/02/06 10:40 PM

Colorado,

Believe me, if I can find these things here, you can find them in US too!!!

Anyway, my solution for this sort of parts have been to cut and form from steel blocks and other parts. Many of them I got from tooling manufacturers that I work with. They are plastic injection mold builders, so they usually have an assortment of steel parts that can be machined to fit the project.

For ribs, steel tubing is a solution, you just have to cut and fit them. My gun has not been regulated yet, so I have not installed the top and botton ribs so far. But honestly I don't anticipate any serious problems in doing that.

Fred

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #50200 - 18/02/06 01:56 AM

I just recieved my copy of Browns book...guess what, he lives just up the road from me! Once I get further down the road on DR project #2 I think I might give him a call on a few sticky parts.

Thanks,
Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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doublegunfan
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50203 - 18/02/06 02:48 AM

Colorado,

That would be great. If you have the chance, you definately should go and see this guy. He must have some wonderful stories to tell.
Report back and let us know.

Fred

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AkMike
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Re: Homemade DR tested [Re: doublegunfan]
      #50207 - 18/02/06 04:17 AM

You could invite him to join us on this forum too.


--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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