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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
577 3 1/4
      #49545 - 09/02/06 03:29 AM

Does anyone know much about the 577 3 1/4 cartridge. Is it a Nitro Express or nitro for black or black powder. I am looking at a Jeffery in this caliber and it has no real information on water tables to tell me wat it is or what weight bullet its regulated for.

Sam

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49552 - 09/02/06 05:39 AM

The .577 3 1/4" was offered in BPE, Nitro for Black, and full Nitro. The Nitro version was offered as both 90 Cordite/650 bullet and 100 Cordite/750 bullet.

I think I know which rifle you're referring to. Just "577EX", no mention of bullet weight or charge and no mention of Cordite. That makes the proof marks pre-1904 black. Serial number is from a block assigned 1898-1901. Nitro proof was around long before the 1904 rules introduced the nitro proof mark. Under the 1887 and 1896 rules, nitro proof was signified by marking the name of the semi-smokeless propellant used together with the heaviest bullet used in the normal load. For guns proved in Britain during this period, if a semi-smokeless propellant is not named on the flats, it wasn't proved for or with nitro. This gun was built to full nitro weight, but it isn't nitro proof.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #49554 - 09/02/06 06:00 AM

400 NitroExpress,

Thanks for the information its a big help. I'm not sure if I'm going to buy the gun in question but this does help me decide if I want it or not. I don't know how available 3 1/4 brass is but at least I know what gun is capable of handling.

Sam

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Brad_Rolston
.224 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 7
Loc: South Africa
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49567 - 09/02/06 07:30 AM

Sam

Brass should not be a problem in your country. I have just ordered a Searcy chambered for this cartridge.

Please post pictures of the Jeffery if possible, and list any other info. you have available.


Brad

--------------------
Brad Rolston African Hunting
P.O. Box 506
Stella
8650
Kalahari
South Africa
Telephone : +27 (0) 82 574 9928
Fax : +27 (0) 86 672 6854
E-mail : rolston585ae@iafrica.com


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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: Brad_Rolston]
      #49569 - 09/02/06 08:03 AM

Brad,

I still haven't figured out how to post photos on this site. I'm pretty computer dumb! Sorry.
The gun looks OK has some working wear on stocks and blueing. I haven't put my hands on it yet to see if its mechanically OK.
I found brass so I know that won't be a problem. Cost $7.00 a hull though.

Sam

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Brad_Rolston
.224 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 7
Loc: South Africa
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49570 - 09/02/06 08:09 AM

Sam

You can send any pictures you have to my regular e-mail.

Do you have any reloading info?

Brad

--------------------
Brad Rolston African Hunting
P.O. Box 506
Stella
8650
Kalahari
South Africa
Telephone : +27 (0) 82 574 9928
Fax : +27 (0) 86 672 6854
E-mail : rolston585ae@iafrica.com


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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: Brad_Rolston]
      #49572 - 09/02/06 08:11 AM

Brad,

Did you get my recent e-mail regarding the ele hide?

Erik

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Brad_Rolston
.224 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 7
Loc: South Africa
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: EricD]
      #49574 - 09/02/06 08:20 AM

Hi Erik

Good to hear from you. No, I did not get your e-mail. I have had ISP problems lately, and there are 5 ( now 6 ) people whose e-mails do not get here ( or get received ).

I have been told that everything is OK, but there are still people in the US, and Mexico ( along with yourself ) that are not.
I will call them again in the morning, and hopefully get it taken care of.

I will send you an e-mail as soon as I get an answer.

Best wishes.

Brad


--------------------
Brad Rolston African Hunting
P.O. Box 506
Stella
8650
Kalahari
South Africa
Telephone : +27 (0) 82 574 9928
Fax : +27 (0) 86 672 6854
E-mail : rolston585ae@iafrica.com


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49576 - 09/02/06 08:25 AM

Where in NC do you live?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: bonanza]
      #49615 - 09/02/06 11:58 PM

Bonanza,

I live half way between Wilmington and Fayetteville in the sticks.

Sam

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #49616 - 10/02/06 12:04 AM

400 NitroExpress,

I got alittle more information on this Jeffery. The owner called me back and took gun apart as we talked and here is what is on the water table. 500 cartridge 3 1/4 case 177 grs 650 grs bullet. It has the double eagle head proof mark also. Serial # is in the 4XXX range. Any thing more that you know about it would help.

Thanks Sam

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49624 - 10/02/06 01:58 AM

srose:
The 177 refers to 177 grains of Black powder, and the 650gr bullet is the heavier option for the family of .577 Express cartridges.

The standard .577 Express on the 3-inch case was loaded with 165 grains BP and a 540 or 560gr lead bullet.

You would be able to make a wonderful 'nitro for black' load up for this rifle. Woodleigh makes a superb 650gr Weldcore jacketed bullet, and a powder like Varget would allow you to match the original ballistics at perhaps 8 tons pressure rather than the original 10 tons. Easier on the gun.

The .577 NforB load is very underrated IMHO. It is a good killer with the bonded core bullet, and is nowhere near as vicious to shoot as the full nitro load. Five stars!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: Marrakai]
      #49635 - 10/02/06 03:34 AM

Marrakai

Yeah I was hoping it was a Nitro but a 650 grain bullet at 1800 fps or so would be a good thumper. Easier on the shoulder to. The owner orginally told me it didn't have any markings on the water table so I assumed it was an early nitro gun.

Thanks, Sam

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49654 - 10/02/06 10:32 AM

Sam:

I guess there are two for sale. The one I saw weighed 14 lbs and was a tad later gun. Still definitely a BPE.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bwana600nitro
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/06
Posts: 41
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: Marrakai]
      #49836 - 13/02/06 01:44 PM

Marrakai,

I have seen you posts about your 577. I've been evesdroping here for about 6 months. I'm thinking about having a 577 650/1950fps built, but elect to have a 3in chamber. What weight is your gun? Do you think that 11lbs would be enough. Anyone is welcome to answer there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here. All comments welcome!

Bwana

PS Howdy everyone!!

--------------------
"The big ones look big" Jack O'Conner

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: bwana600nitro]
      #49838 - 13/02/06 02:29 PM

bwana600nitro:
Welcome to NE. Depending on how long you've been lurking, you may have seen an earlier thread where I promoted the 650/90 .577 with Weldcore bullets as a cartridge whose day has finally arrived! I got flamed of course, but I'm heartened to find another kindred soul!

When discussing cartridge power and rifle weight, its a good idea to work backwards. In my opinion 11 lbs is a good 'maximum' weight for a rifle which will be carried a lot in the field. Anything heavier than that is going to tell by days end, whereas I can carry my 11 lb Manton .470 or Alex Henry 20/.577 all day in tropical heat.

Regarding recoil, about 75 ftlbs is getting up there for comfortable shooting, and 80 ftlbs is probably getting very close to a practical maximum. This means that 1850 fps with the 650gr bullet is going to fit within our paradigm, whereas 1950 fps is above. We can opt to live with the higher recoil, or either increase gun weight or drop the velocity. Personally I would opt for the latter.

My Greener conversion weighs 10 1/2 lbs, and nudges the 650-grainer along at a very modest 1665 fps. It is very pleasant to shoot all day, around 63 ftlbs recoil energy. In that action I won't go any higher, but in a new Searcy or similar I would definitely consider specifying 1850 - 1900 fps. 1850 fps will still stun buffalo with the Woodleigh 650 grainer. With a well-fitted stock, 11 lbs should be enough but it will certainly still boot! Depends what you want in the long run.

Remember there are two Woodleigh 650-grainers, one thin-jacketed for BP which would be a bomb on hogs/elk/bear etc, and a tougher one for buffalo and other thick-skinned game.

Its a lot of fun planning a new rifle, especially a .577!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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bwana600nitro
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/06
Posts: 41
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: Marrakai]
      #49839 - 13/02/06 02:42 PM

I think it would be equal to a 500 nitro with a bit more frontal area, and managable weight. With the 3 in chamber I would be looking a little over 12 british long tons (low pressure)with plenty of knock down. I think it would be a hoot. Right now I'm talking with Butch. I missed him at the Ant. firearms show in Vegas, but plan to talk to him this week. I also will get some one like Zanardini to quote one. I would love to do one for less than 12,000 but it is not in the cards. Looks like Butch is at 18,000 and the Contintial makers are between 22,000 and 40,000.

Bwana

--------------------
"The big ones look big" Jack O'Conner

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: bwana600nitro]
      #49858 - 14/02/06 12:32 AM

Butch will bring our .577 in around 14 lbs, or lightly under.

Personally, for a full load (which ours will be regulated for), I wouldn't want it much lighter.

But that is a personal preference.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #49859 - 14/02/06 12:58 AM

400 NitroExpress,

Yes there were two I looked at. Both were dogs!Bores were bad and guns were off face. The Jeffery was beat up pretty bad around the receiver. I was really disappointed when I saw them. Guess I'LL keep looking.

Sam

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49866 - 14/02/06 01:51 AM

srose:

Where was the seller from? (I want to make sure I stay away from him/her!)

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: clark7781]
      #49871 - 14/02/06 02:19 AM

Clark7781

I'd rather not say. This was a private meeting to look at guns and don't think he has advertized the guns anywhere. The guy just didn't seem to know much about the condition of the guns. Both had beem poorly redone and seller didn't know what off face meant. I did pick up two other doubles from the guy for other people that were nice guns. Remember photos sometimes don't show really what a gun is. Some sellers may not know how to judge what they have.

Sam

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: srose]
      #49874 - 14/02/06 02:59 AM

Srose:

Understand.

You have a PM.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: clark7781]
      #62671 - 19/09/06 10:13 AM

Hi

And once again......seems iffy, did the 577x3 1/4 bpe really exist,or, only a nitro version?

Can find no sign of any BP version.......

Cheerio

Ben

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: empirevr]
      #62673 - 19/09/06 10:42 AM

What's "iffy"about it? Perhaps you're not looking in the right places. Kynoch and Eley both loaded the .577 3 1/4" in Black, Nitro for Black, and Nitro Express. I've seen double rifles chambered for both.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #62679 - 19/09/06 01:06 PM


And a mate owns the Jeffrey 577 3 1/4" NE that is 11 serial numbers from the first 600 Nitro on the same action - it doesn't have any proof marks but it only regulates with full Nitro loads.

500 Nitro

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