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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
50-140 Sharps Wild Cat
      #48143 - 27/01/06 04:22 AM

I'm thinking about building a gun on this, does anybody have experience with it?

Thanks,
Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #48200 - 27/01/06 01:40 PM

Yes - I think I know where you're coming from, but technically speaking, .50 X 3-1/4" brass is available commercially, so it isn't a wildcat. Wildcats are those which the case is made from a different case, neither available as a standard item, nor can be formed by firing factory ammo in the new chamber.
: Although Sharps never chambered a straight 3-1/4" case, Shilo does, or did. I had a Shilo m74 Side hammer in .50x3-1/4". Mine was throated quite long, about 1/2", and due to that long seating, the case held 170gr. of 1F just as Elmer Keith said it would.
: Supper call, back later with some data for you. heh Heh

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: DarylS]
      #48315 - 28/01/06 09:05 AM

The lyman handloading books show ballistics in the black powder range, however Accurate Arms show loads that are safe in the replica Sharps, yet deliver the potential of the round.
: My shooting friend now has my .50 X 3-1/4" Shilo Sharps, and routinely uses the 450gr. Lyman bullet ahead of 110gr. of AA4350 or AA3100. These loads are listed for the 550gr. RCBS & could be used with the lighter 520gr. Lyman bullets and so are quite low pressure with the lighter 450gr. bullet, even with the large BP-type firing pin of his Sharps. It is a tremendous load for large North American game, and only gives pressures in the 35,000CUP range. He had an identical gun, but with no freebore, light-stock and hooked butt plate. It was rather murderous with the smokeless loads he'd developed. He's sold that one, and kept my Shot-gun-butt rifle for his hunting rifle. It routinely shoots into 1.3" at 100yds using the tang sight and post front, or adjustable Sharps barrel sights.
; A lighter, but still effective load is 65gr. 3031 and the 450gr. bullet, case full with Kapok, for 1,760fps. This also is an accurate load.
: For BP loads, a PP 600gr. with 120gr. 2F, and card wads filling the case was also an accurate load. With BP, the charge must fill the case with failry hard compression. A grease wad or 60% Beeswax/40% Vaseline is pressed down on the card wad beneath the bullet to keep the fouling soft. This load is a 1.5" for 5 shot load, even though the 36" twist is a bit slow for it. This may not hold accuracy at over 300yards.
: In a stronger gun yet, I am certain a full 2,200fps could easily be given to the 550gr. within about 43,000CUP. Need more? I don't think so. In actual fact, this cartridge, if chambered in a stout double rifle, should match the .500 3" Nitro easily.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #48426 - 29/01/06 12:35 PM

I do hope you are well. I've not observed you here for some time.
: I have all that load data if you want it - e-mail me if you want it - my mail addy is in my profile. The pressures are even lower than I'd remembered, with energy approaching 6,000ft.lbs. at a mere 27,500PSI.(2,184fps with a 550gr. FL)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: DarylS]
      #48455 - 29/01/06 05:31 PM

Thanks for the info, gun goes off for sleeving monday. I will be using a Greener for the 50-140, however for a NA fun shooter I'll be using the old stoeger sleeved and chambered in 45-90.

Got the 12 bore up to 165 grains triple 7 and pyrodex FFg. So far regulation is holding better than my shoulder and brain. Accuracy is improving with load increases, although the left barrel is shooting slightly low and right. I might try increasing the load in it by 10 grains to raise it level with the right. Could be me to, that second shot at these loads is brutal, and I flinch everytime.

Colorado



--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #48498 - 30/01/06 03:46 AM

Low right is mostly a finch- about 9 times out of 10, anyway. That is how I know if I flinched shooting the flintlock rifle. Low right, for me is a flinch, however yours could be regulation as that is a phenominum not present in my rifle.
: Will you dig up your own data on the .50x3-1/4" of mail me for it?
dtlc@telus.net

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #48520 - 30/01/06 07:18 AM

The new Hodgdon 2006 handbook(I just picked up)also has data for the .50x3-1/4" with Lyman 512gr. FN cast at almost 2,100fps and under 28,000CUP as well as the Lyman #515141 in 425gr. (harder lead) running almost 2,300fps and at 28,100CUP.
: In this case, PSI (used by AArms) and CUP used by Hodgdon appear almost equal, # to #. The .45/70 also seems to follow this trend. It is possible, that with pressures higher or lower, the numbers don't co-relate, such as most all other ctgs. show at any pressure level.
: Incidently, .470 Nitro data runs 500gr. at 2,159fps, only 60fps faster than the .50's top load listed here, but the .470 data is 25fps behind the top-end AA load for a 550gr., .50 cal. bullet.
: This is indeed a VERY powerful ctg. when loaded with smokless powder, even in a Sharps or Remington Rolling Block of modern manufacture.
: Your Martini should even increase upon these loads, if your shoulder is up to it. I know for a fact, that shooting well over 100gr. of smokeless behind a .50 calibre bullet, kicks pretty hard. It should equal with ease, the factory .500 nitro ballistics of a 570gr. at 2,150fps and do it with less than 35,000PSI or CUP.
: Hodgdon used Federal 210M primers, while AA used Federal 215 primers. Even with the hottest primers, we had unburnt powder left in the bore. This is due to the slow powders being used to fill the case, aren't good burners at such low pressures. They do give good accuracy and shot to shot consistancy, though.
: Keep me posted on this rifle, Colorado. I am interested in how the big Martini stacks up.- or is it a Double Rifle? I just took for granted it was a single Martini, for some reason.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: DarylS]
      #48666 - 31/01/06 10:10 AM

I'll let you know when I need the reloading data, thanks. Not there yet. I have to make sure the barrel maker can make a barrel that can handle the round in a 12 or 10 bore Greener double. I need something with a cross bolt and or dolls head to handle the recoil of the 50-140. From what I've read on one of the other forums, the 50-140, using 140 grn FFg is pretty impressive its self.

Thanks,
Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26971
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 50-140 Sharps Wild Cat [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #48881 - 02/02/06 05:42 AM

The heavy BP loads kick about the same as a 450gr. doing 1,900fps with smokeless loads. The shear volume of burning BP powder produces this, compared to 1/2 weight of smokeless.
: With BP loads, a 550gr. trudging along at 1,450fps is nothing to sneeze at. We know for a fact, if hard cast, they'll exit from a 30" dia. Spruce tree. My bro anchored a moose with his .45x3-1/4" with a 550gr.PP bullet, within 20feet of impact. It staggered that far and collapsed onto it's back, feet straight up, bent at the knees. The .50 hits harder, of course.
: We then went to the .50 Alaskan on McGowen barrels for our Sharps and Rolling Block for eaaier obtained brass and better loading density with smokeless while not being obnoxious to shoot with BP. These, with smokeless or BP still did the job at hand and were easier for obtaining brass and had much improved loading densities. While slightly less powerful than the 3-1/2" case, we've become very satisfied with them.
: Double, eh - nice- but barels too short to properly handle 140gr. BP. If chambered for the .50 Alaksan, it would be a wonderful gun. Plenty powerful enough for anthing States-side & most in Africa with lots of data available. Barnes, Hodgdon, Big Bore Rifle Ctgs.& the big book on Wildcats. They come out at 2.1" and will drive 500gr. at 1,900fps easily with smokeless loads at less than 40,000PSI with over 100gr. total capacity.
: We thought of it as a modern .50/90. It uses .348 Win Brass, blown out straight, an easy forming job with immensley strong, cheap brass that lasts forever.
: The .50x3-1/4" will beat the Alaskan by about 150 to 200fps, but it takes double the powder charge of smokeless(or BP) to do it. Although the biggest .50 case is an interesting to get to shoot well, it is very difficult to get good accuracy with BP. The shorter cases are much easier. This is due mostly to the very dirty burning characteristics of our black powder and a case that seems to need at least 30" or more of barrel to burn it well.
: So, for me, it would be the 2.5"Sharps or Alaskan 2.1" case. The shorter case will come quite close to the longer one.
: At this stage of the game - more food for thought.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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