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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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CorditeBlues
.224 member


Reged: 15/12/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Rochester, MI USA
450/400 bullet diameters
      #47321 - 22/01/06 05:36 AM

I notice that Woodleigh offers two bullet diameters for the 450/400: .411 and .408. Is this another case of Jeffery marching to their own drummer (ala the 475 J No.2), or is there some other explanation? I'm primarily interested in knowing which was the "standard" diameter.

--------------------
"In a question of right and wrong, never be neutral."
Theodore Roosevelt

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: CorditeBlues]
      #47328 - 22/01/06 06:21 AM


The original bullets were .411 although I have seen
English DR's with bores from .407 - .412 but the
standard seems to be .411.
I have measured quite a few and it can be hard to
get the correct measurement. If you shoot a new
gun always measure bore first.

The .408 cam about from the US market asking for
them - I think Searcy's bores are .408 in his 450/400's.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47448 - 22/01/06 04:33 PM

You will encounter 450/400 3" and 450/400 3 1/4" doubles with either bbl diameter.
My 3 1/4" is a .408 diameter gun.
These were the standard diameters, as standards went back then. Always have the bbl of a 450/400 slugged by a prifessional.

There are TWO different 475 No2's.
The regular 475 No2 used 480 grain bullets of .483 diameter.
The 475 No2 JEFFERY used 500 grain .488 diameter bullets.

At least that is the way it is supposed to be.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: CorditeBlues]
      #47451 - 22/01/06 05:50 PM

The net result today is - slug the bores. But yeah, that's what happened.

I had a discussion with David Little at Kynoch about this not long ago. He said that the original factory drawings for the .450/.400 3 1/4" NE, which preceeded the 3", show a .408" diameter bullet. When Jeffery introduced the 3", he did his own thing like he did with the .475 No. 2. That was a bad mistake, and confusion ensued. The "standards" were a .408" for the 3 1/4" and a .411" for the 3", but that was too confusing to last.

My Watson Brothers 3 1/4" was .411", my A. Hollis & Son 3" is .408". In the last month, J. J. Perodeau has slugged two .450/.400 3" rifles for guys I know. An A. Hollis & Son was .411" and a Manton was .408". Another friend has a 3 1/4" that is .405".

The standards were different, but I think Kynoch, in trying to get a handle on this mess in later years, stuck to neither. I've pulled bullets from several lots of original Kynoch in both calibers over the years, all post-war stuff from the '50s, '60s, and '70s. Every bullet pulled from both calibers has been .410".
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Montana
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47462 - 22/01/06 08:31 PM

My Manton 3" is .411" Interestingly, I have a box of .408 woodleighs that measure .4065" I wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to err on the side of safety given the variety of bore sizes?

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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CorditeBlues
.224 member


Reged: 15/12/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Rochester, MI USA
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #47578 - 23/01/06 10:36 AM

Gentlemen;
Thanks for the clarifications.

Doug.


--------------------
"In a question of right and wrong, never be neutral."
Theodore Roosevelt

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #47595 - 23/01/06 12:44 PM

O. Bob:

Maybe so. I've noticed the same thing.
-------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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WVFRED
.300 member


Reged: 17/01/05
Posts: 169
Loc: Charleston WV
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47617 - 23/01/06 03:31 PM

My Army & Navy 3 1/4" is a .408.
Fred

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1885
.275 member


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 92
Loc: Edmond, OK, USA
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: WVFRED]
      #47744 - 24/01/06 01:27 PM

My C. W. Andrews 3-1/4" is also a .408".

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 1885]
      #47747 - 24/01/06 02:04 PM

The Jeffery .400 3-inch in my care is .411.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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jep21
.224 member


Reged: 04/11/05
Posts: 11
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47760 - 24/01/06 03:30 PM

I think Butch's 450/400s are .411. I talked to him about about one some months ago but thought I did not want to wait on the production time (mistake).

He has subsequently helped me get .411 barrels on order to expedite repairs on the used rifle I purchased...

Emory

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: jep21]
      #47770 - 24/01/06 04:23 PM

jep21,

Will you rebuild be a 3" or 3 1/4"?

It sure was nice of Butch to step in and help out even though he makes nothing from the project.

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jep21
.224 member


Reged: 04/11/05
Posts: 11
Re: 450/400 bullet diameters [Re: 500grains]
      #47800 - 24/01/06 10:12 PM

I'm going with the 3" version. Close choice, but striking will take out the old engraving so I could go either route.

Certainly agree on Butch's fine qualities (likewise with JJ and Kirk).

Emory

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