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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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mickey
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Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Are Doubles just for DG?
      #47095 - 20/01/06 09:50 AM

Many posters feel that Doubles are only for Dangerous Game. Stoppers. Normal Game should be taken with a scoped bolt or even a single shot.

I am not sure but I would guess that more Double Rifles have been made in calibers .375 and under than over.

What has happened to all these lighter rifles? I know where a couple are, in my safe, but what of the others?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47096 - 20/01/06 09:53 AM


Mickey

In my safe !!!

I think Holland was prolific in making smaller calibre doubles.

Winchester, Beretta et al made alot in the 9.3, 7mm etc.

Most of the English ones I know of ( 25+) are in the hands
of collectors / shooters.


500 Nitro


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47103 - 20/01/06 11:10 AM

I have several hoarded! I love small bore DR'S.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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375Brno
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47104 - 20/01/06 11:16 AM

So just to extend the discussion a little bit further what is the availability of small bore doubles in the secondhand market and what would you expect to pay for something like a 375. I know that can be a bit subjective so a range of values is OK.

375Fetish


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 375Brno]
      #47107 - 20/01/06 11:29 AM

You will pay a premium for a 375 Flanged. After that though the price goes down considerably but it is a strong market now.

A 360#2 is as good as a 375 Flanged and will be, maybe $5000 or more cheaper in a given model.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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tinker
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47115 - 20/01/06 12:58 PM

I don't have much interest at all in going after the classic dangerous game animals with my double rifles.

I have an 8x60r double rifle coming, might actually get to see it this weekend, and it's an iron sighted fairly straight gripped pointy and elegant ejector rifle which seems to have been set up with driven game in mind.

If all checks out well with it and it's what it's said to be, I'll be keeping it and using it for four legged North American game.

I'll have about five grand in it.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: tinker]
      #47124 - 20/01/06 02:45 PM

Absolutely not.

I enjoyed using my .450 on pigs in the Territory. Because it is not shooting perfectly I was hesitant in using it on smaller targets and perhaps further away but it came through very well.

Later I used my 9.3x74R on various game and it was murder on pigs again. Blam blam blam, three very quick shots and three dead pigs. They were at close range, maybe 10 metres or less but running in every direction.

I think a stag will be the next target.

A scoped accurate double rifle is twice the gun a bolt action is!




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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iwantadouble
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: NitroX]
      #47126 - 20/01/06 02:58 PM

The single most impressive kill on a running mule deer that I have witnessed was when I was 17 years old. (The incident was more than too much for an overly impressionable me, by the way.) Efficent doesn't even begin to discribe the kill. More like the hands of the gods all came down and slapped that deer to the dirt. The rifle is currently for sale on the net. Caliber is .475 #2.

Just because they were designed for big DG in mind, does not make them any less exceptional in use on smaller non-DG in my opinion.

--------------------
500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47148 - 21/01/06 12:45 AM

Seems like most guys getting into doubles start with a large bore and most own only a large bore, and that's a mistake. The mediums are much more useful and using one regularly makes the heavy rifle second nature.

There's nothing as pleasant to carry and shoot as a medium bore double built to a proper weight. I've used mine for feral hogs and whitetail to black bear and elk. With it's folding moon bead, it's the finest rifle for baited bear I've ever found.

Not long ago, small and medium bore British doubles were substantially cheaper than comparable large bores, but the prices are much closer now. The problem with some of these is weight. The .360 No. 2 is a fine cartridge, but finding one that weighs less than 10 1/4 lbs ain't easy. The .280 Flanged would be a nice caliber, but most of the doubles are 10 to 10.5 lbs, Curl's little Lancaster notwithstanding.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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Rusty
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47150 - 21/01/06 12:59 AM

I try to hunt with my double as much as I can.
Here are some pics of me and fellow DRSS members.






Hopefully we can get some other double rifle shooter to post their Non-Dangerous Game pics.



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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foxfire
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: Rusty]
      #47151 - 21/01/06 01:32 AM

Rusty,
This is my first animal shot with my double, 7x65R it was a great hunt and I enjoyed carrying it.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47152 - 21/01/06 01:36 AM

400NE,

"Curl's little Lancaster" is a sweetheart, but petite she's not. She filled her belly on the pre-WW1 English gunmaker's attention, and as a result, weighs in at precisely 9.44 pounds on my digital scales.

But all must remember that a typical modern bolt gun with variable power scope weighs about the same. I'd rather carry the double in the Virginia woods.

By the way, I am actively gearing up to load for this lady. Last fall I ordered dies from Huntington. They arrived just before Christmas, but the sizer is just a little big and the sized cases will not quite chamber. I sent it back with a cerrosafe chamber cast (should have sent the chamber cast with the initial order - take heed). Should be in business in a month or two. I'll report to the forum.

Here's the not-so-petite Lancaster (which is not for sale).

C. Lancaster .280 Flanged from Curl's new website, still in development.

Best,
Curl



--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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tinker
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About the large bore guns... [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47155 - 21/01/06 01:45 AM

Funny the note about large bore guns being the common choice for beginners...

The first double rifle I purchaced was my Mahillon sixteen bore pinfire SxS double rifle.
That gun pushes a bullet measuring .666" in diameter -- and it was built to take medium sized four legged game with antlers.
It's really a sweet shooting gun.
I've been thinking a lot about either building or having built a centerfire boxlock double for a similar load, just to be able to hunt with it keeping the Mahillon safe from the times when field carry might be hard on it.

As for sweet light and slender, I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for my 8x60 BLE to arrive. It might show up late today!



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47160 - 21/01/06 02:11 AM

Curl:

I guess my memory is playing tricks. I thought I remembered you saying it was 9 lbs, 1 ounce. Still, 9.4 is light for a .280 Flanged. I saw one not long ago that was 10.5. If I remember right, my .400/.360 is 8 lbs, 14 ounces. That's me with the little Evans in the second pic from the top in the group that Rusty posted above.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47161 - 21/01/06 02:13 AM

Curl:

Lovely little lady you have there. Do you have the history of her? Did it belong to Lord Fitzmaurice (name on the trunk), and if so, do you have any information about this gentleman?



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47162 - 21/01/06 02:30 AM

Clark,

I haven't researched the provenance of my Lancaster. In fact, I don't know who has the Lancaster records. Maybe somebody can send me in the right direction. I too would like to know.

I suspect the case is original to the rifle. It's the correct period, the correct level of elegance for a boxlock(or lack thereof - canvas rather than oak & leather), and fits like a glove. The crisp, like-new condition of this rifle wouldn't be there if it hadn't spent the years wrapped in such protection. It's easy to differentiate a rifle that rode out the years in a cocoon from one that knocked around in closets and gun cabinets or stacked in a corner. This one has had the easy life.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47174 - 21/01/06 04:06 AM

Man you "DRSS society" guys have some fun on your get togethers. Nice pics.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47179 - 21/01/06 04:34 AM


Curl

Tha last time I heard the guy who owned the Lancaster records
lives in Australia. I will ask and see if I can get a current contact details.

I will bring over Pictures of my Lancaster Sidelock 450/400
that now lives in the US - and has now shot a Lion, Buff and Elephant
in one morning by the new owner !!!

500 Nitro


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47181 - 21/01/06 04:55 AM

In reply to:

"I haven't researched the provenance of my Lancaster. In fact, I don't know who has the Lancaster records. Maybe somebody can send me in the right direction. I too would like to know."

"I suspect the case is original to the rifle."




Uhhhh, Roscoe? Are you serious?

I am shocked, I say SHOCKED, that the owner of such an exceptional and rare example of British gunmaking art as "a hammerless 'B' Grade, body action (boxlock), non-fouling smooth oval bore, double-barrel non-ejector .280 rifle, No. 013487, built for Lord Charles FitzMaurice in 1912 by Charles Lancaster & Co." would NOT KNOW that said rifle was featured in a beautiful FULL PAGE color plate (captioned as preceeds in quotation) in a serious published work on the maker ("Atkin, Grant & Lang" by the late Don Masters; color plates between pages 100 and 101). I assume that the date and the customer's name came from the Lancaster records. Charles Lancaster & Co. was acquired by Grant & Lang in 1932 and a section of this book is devoted to them.

I didn't see mention of this specific rifle in the text, (I just thumbed it), but I instantly recognized your rifle in the color plates. I assumed you knew. Get yo butt to the bookstore boy.

The Lancaster records went to David Perkins of Charles Lancaster & Co., Ltd. The Firs, Bishopswood, Somerset TA20 3RU, in 1996. Tel/Fax 01460 234254.
-----------------------------------------------------------



--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47187 - 21/01/06 05:47 AM

Curl:

You need to dig into this a bit. I think it's possible that this guy was the son of Lord Lansdowne, the famous British politician from the Victorian/Edwardian era, owner of Bowood House. This particular Lord Charles was KIA at Ypres in 1914. If you google it, there is a photo of a "Lord Charles FitzMaurice" in a group with King George V on a cruise to India in 1911.
-----------------------------------------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47190 - 21/01/06 05:57 AM

I'm big into Genealogy and the name FitzMaurice caught my eye.

Here is what I could find:

Major Lord Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice1 (M)
b. 12 February 1874, d. 30 October 1914, #29047
Pedigree
Last Edited=7 Sep 2005


Major Lord Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice was born on 12 February 1874.3 He was the son of Sir Henry Charles Keith Petty-FitzMaurice, 5th Marquess of Lansdowne and Lady Maud Evelyn Hamilton.2 He married Lady Violet Mary Elliot-Murray-Kynynmound, daughter of Gilbert John Elliot-Murray-Kynynmound, 4th Earl of Minto and Mary Caroline Grey, on 20 January 1909.4 He died on 30 October 1914 at age 40 in Ypres, Belgium, killed in action.2,5
Major Lord Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice was baptised with the name of Charles George Francis Petty-FitzMaurice.6 He was Aide-de-Camp to Field Marshal Earl Roberts between 1899 and 1900.3 He fought in the Boer War between 1899 and 1900.3 He held the office of Equerry in Ordinary between 1909 and 1910, to the Prince of Wales, later HM King George V.3 He was invested as a Member, Royal Victorian Order (M.V.O.).1 He held the office of Equerry between 1910 and 1914, to HM King George V.3 He lived in Aldie, Kinross-shire, Scotland.3 He lived in Meiklour, Perthshire, Scotland.3 He lived in Tullybeagles, Perthshire, Scotland.3 He gained the rank of Major in the service of the 1st Dragoons.2 On 1 January 1914 his name was legally changed to Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice.3

Children of Major Lord Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice and Lady Violet Mary Elliot-Murray-Kynynmound
Lady Mary Margaret Elizabeth Petty-FitzMaurice+ b. 6 Feb 1910, d. 4 Mar 2003
George John Charles Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice, 8th Marquess of Lansdowne+ b. 27 Nov 1912, d. 25 Aug 1999


Sources:

Citations

[S8] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 132. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition.
[S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume VII, page 443. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage.
[S37] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 2, page 2240. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.
[S2] Peter W. Hammond, editor, The Complete Peerage or a History of the House of Lords and All its Members From the Earliest Times, Volume XIV: Addenda & Corrigenda (Stroud, Gloucestershire, U.K.: Sutton Publishing, 1998), page 817. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage, Volume XIV.
[S1444] Letter from Jim FitzMaurice (22 Bell Road, Lower Hutt, New Zealand) to Darryl Lundy, 18 August 2005; unknown repository (unknown repository address).
[S2] Peter W. Hammond, The Complete Peerage, Volume XIV, page 424.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47191 - 21/01/06 06:06 AM

400NE,

My ignorance is pretty shocking; in fact, something of an embarrassment. Just be glad you don't have to endure my heavy burden!

Clark,

There's your answer. I was right. The case is original to the rifle.

I'm off to the internet, shopping for a book. Need to catch up on some reading. . .

Thanks for the tip, 400NE.

Curl

P.S.

Wow! The two preceding posts appeared while I was fiddling around with this post and doing a search for the book. What great information, guys! Does this mean I get to meet the queen????????

Again, thanks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Edited by CptCurl (21/01/06 06:13 AM)


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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47193 - 21/01/06 06:09 AM

If both the person's date of death and date of manufacture of the rifle are correct, it is ashame that Lord FitzMaurice only had less than two years to enjoy it.





--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47194 - 21/01/06 06:17 AM

Yeah, and he spent part of that time in the trenches, finally getting his ass shot off! What a shame.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47195 - 21/01/06 06:22 AM

I figured that might rattle your cage a little.

I bet it's the same guy. His father, Lord Lansdowne, was Governor-General of Canada and Viceroy of India. The family owned Bowood House. The W & C Scott "Bowood" model shotgun was named for it.
-----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47197 - 21/01/06 06:32 AM

I have a copy of the first edition of ATKIN, GRANT and LANG: A DETAILED HISTORY OF ENDRUING GUNMAKERS By Don Masters headed this way. Can't wait to see the pic and read the book.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47200 - 21/01/06 06:50 AM

It looks like a really nice book. Has some serial number tables in the back. The serial number of your gun is close to Denys Finch-Hatton's celebrated .475, built 1911.

Since this guy was killed two years after he got this rifle, that might explain what looks like pretty high condition. It's certainly gorgeous in the book picture.

Ypres was one of the bloodiest names of WWI. Since the town remained in the salient for much of the war, several battles were fought there.
-------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47202 - 21/01/06 07:00 AM

In reply to:

Many posters feel that Doubles are only for Dangerous Game. Stoppers. Normal Game should be taken with a scoped bolt or even a single shot.

I am not sure but I would guess that more Double Rifles have been made in calibers .375 and under than over.

What has happened to all these lighter rifles? I know where a couple are, in my safe, but what of the others?




Double rifles are the best stoppers ever invented, but they are not limited to that purpose! I would say the double rifles chambered for 375H&H flanged, and under, are the most versatile double rifles ever made. I too, would suspect, that doubles chambered for 9.3X74R and smaller, have been made twenty times more than the very large bore doubles.

It is that we only see the big boys, for the most part, because the folks who use the smaller doubles rarely get in films, and in magazine articles. People in the USA, are not awash with experience with double rifles,of any kind, and the ones who are, are usually only intrested in the large bore stoppers. In Europe, double rifles are used by lots of people in the hunting fields, for things like deer, stagg, Boar and bear.

I would say my favorite chambering in a hunting double rifle for North America, is either a 375 flanged, or 9.3X74R, but the 8mm, 7mm, and the like are fine as well. The reason I like the 9.3, and 375 flanged chamberings is, because they are also very usefull in Africa, as well!

A perfect pair would be a 9.3X74R,with a illum scope, in QD mounts, and one of the 450 bores like a 450NE 3 1/4" to handle everything in the world. If you will have only one then my pick would be a 450/400NE 3" for everything.

I have a pair that I set up for a trip to Africa, which is a pair of Merkels,one chambered for 9.3X74R, and the other chambered for 470NE! However, I have small doubles and they are my daily shooters for the most part!


--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47214 - 21/01/06 08:34 AM

400NE,

I just went back to find the thread where we first discussed my .280 a year ago. AT THIS LINK. I remember you were interested in the Webley number on the forend loupe and how it related to the date of manufacture. At that time we were limited on the date because of the spread of dates in Nigel Brown's update of London Guns.

It now seems the date is pretty well established as 1912 by your astute observation in the Atkin, Grant & Lang book. How does that fit with your Webley research?

Again, thanks for all your interesting information and knowledge.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47215 - 21/01/06 09:02 AM

Curl:

I remembered something.

Let's see. Major Lord Charles George Francis Mercer Nairne Petty-FitzMaurice. I'm not sure what the Brits would do with such a name in normal use. Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill used Winston S. Churchill. I think Lord Charles just used FitzMaurice instead of Petty-FitzMaurice. Lord Charles Petty-FitzMaurice was King George V's equerry 1910-1914. After his coronation in England in 1911, King George made a state visit to India for the purpose of being crowned Emperor of India in Delhi that December, the first British monarch to do so. The King's equerry would have accompanied him on such a state visit - an equerry is the king's personal assistant and that is what they do. Among the shipboard entourage photographed with King George enroute to India for that visit is a man styled "Lord Charles FitzMaurice". Has to be the same guy.

The featured entertainment for this trip was a tiger hunt in Nepal with the Maharaja of Nepal. There's a photo album from this hunt on the web (which is what I remembered). From other reading, I know that KGV was very fond of .280 Flanged doubles. Perhaps Lord Charles used one on this trip and decided to get one for himself when he got home?

Interesting that the photo album of the hunt seems to have come through the Maharaja of Ratlam. The little Evans mentioned earlier was originally shipped to him. I was googleing him when I found the link to the album.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47216 - 21/01/06 09:45 AM

Yes, I thought that number was later at the time. I've added quite a few Webley built guns to my database since then though. No. 13485 was an early post-war gun, ordered 1919. No. 13017 was an Army & Navy that I'm trying to get records on now. I'm expecting 1910. A delivery date of 1912 for Webley No. 13049 isn't going to be that far wrong. Remember that a boxlock could easily have been ordered for stock, which an entry in the day book usually won't show - you usually get just the sale date.

Based on what we know of it (Webley barreled up the action or their number would not be there), my hunch is that Webley finished it as well, but Lancaster could have. No way to tell for sure absent some detail in Lancaster's journal, as opposed to the day book. One thing for sure, Lancaster was using multiple trade makers for double rifles during this period. I've seen several from this period that were definitely not Webley products.
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--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47221 - 21/01/06 10:56 AM

Mickey,

I just posted about the U/O Rizzini doubles from CDNN Investments in 30-06, 308 and 223. Those who cannot afford the big bores (your's truly very much included in this group) could look at these for their regular hunting.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #47224 - 21/01/06 11:22 AM

Mehul

I looked at them the 223 would make a fun Sage rat rifle.

Are you able to join us in Vegas? Perhaps a tasting of the NECocktail?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47236 - 21/01/06 02:20 PM

In reply to:

I will bring over Pictures of my Lancaster Sidelock 450/400
that now lives in the US - and has now shot a Lion, Buff and Elephant
in one morning by the new owner !!!




500Nitro

Would it be possible for the new owner of this fine double to be encouraged to join NitroExpress.com and tell us about his story? The story of hunting a buff, lion and elephant in one morning sounds like an amazing hunt! What a McNab!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: NitroX]
      #47239 - 21/01/06 02:51 PM


I'll ask him.

He's not so much a new owner as he grabbed the gun off me
about 3 years ago - just had to have it he said.

He is a Doctor so not sure if he has time but will ask.

I'll also see if I still have his pictures and story from
the email.


500 Nitro


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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47240 - 21/01/06 03:02 PM


Can someone POST some photos for me.

I have photos of the Lancaster and then the Lion and Elephant shot with it.

I re read what he said about the hunt - he Shot the Buff, Lion
and Elephant in one morning !!!

Not bad for someone who had never owned a Double before.

500 Nitro


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47244 - 21/01/06 03:20 PM

send them to me.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47246 - 21/01/06 03:58 PM


The Photos being posted are of a Lancaster Sidelock Ejector 450 / 400 3 1/4",
Serial No 13141. It is a "Wrist Breaker" action.
Proofed 60gn Cordite, 400gn Bullet.

Address on barrel 99 Mount St, Berkeley Sqaure, London
26” / 66cm Barrels

Lever locked fore end with Full engraving
Full Length File Cut Rib
1 Standing & 1 Folding leaf sights, Ramp Mounted Bead Foresight
14 1/2” / 37cm, Old English Red Rubber Recoil Pad

The gun was not cased when I got it so I cased it and then my mate
in the US took a liking to it and wanted it so badly I relented.

He took the rifle to Africa in 2004 and shot a Lion, Buffalo and
Elephant in 3 Hours.

Enjoy.


500 Nitro





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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #47254 - 21/01/06 05:05 PM

*****see 'LANCASTER' ***** in Double Rifle Forum

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47258 - 21/01/06 05:23 PM

Mickey,

Unfortunately I can't make it this time. I am buying a condo in Chicago and have to complete the formalities tomorrow. Hopefully, by the time we have the next get together, I'll have perfected the Nitro Express.

In any case, have a great time and cheers from my side!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #47260 - 21/01/06 05:26 PM

Too bad, I was looking forward to meeting you in person. Hopefully next time.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47572 - 23/01/06 10:23 AM

400NE,

Can you direct me to the photo album you referred to which shows Lord Charles Fitzmaurice in the company of King George V? I haven't been able to turn it up through Google.

Thanks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47591 - 23/01/06 12:24 PM

Curl:

Go about 3/4 the way down on this webpage:

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/royal_yachts.htm

The problem is, however, that it doesn't tell you specifically who in the photograph is Lord FitzMaurice. It just says "Others grouped around the King include Earl of Granard, Earl of Shaftesbury, Sir Charles Cust, Sir Derek Keppel, Lord Charles Fitzmaurice, Major Clive Wigram, Sir Charles Fitzwilliam, Captain Forbes Trefusis and Captain Godfrey Faussett."

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47593 - 23/01/06 12:41 PM

Curl:

Sorry I'm not very good at cut and pasting. Clark posted the right link while I was looking for it again. HMS Medina - a P & O Liner requisitioned for use as a Royal Yacht. Lots of photos of the visit and the Durbar on the net.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #47637 - 24/01/06 12:36 AM

Thanks, guys.

I spent some time yesterday evening doing some Google searches and learned a fair amount.

Coincidently, this revelation about my rifle comes at a particularly interesting time. I am currently reading The Boer War by Thomas Pakenham. As previously mentioned, Henry Charles Keith Fitzmaurice, 5th Marquess of Lansdowne, was the Secretary of War at that time. Now each reference to him in this book makes me think that I now own his son's double rifle.

Bowood House is still the private residence of the Marques of Lansdowne, but it is also open to the public for certain purposes. Here is it's interesting website.

Best regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: CptCurl]
      #47640 - 24/01/06 12:48 AM

Curl:

I just love history, specifically genealogy. I have done extensive research into my own family's history and uncovered some facinating connections. If what I found is correct, I may well be related to English royalty (Like that means anything.)

I joke about my ancestry and say that I have HOARs in my family tree - my gggreatgrand father married a Sarah Jane Hoar, who was the son of James Hoar - he was a member of a "prominent Massachusetts" family and was the cousin of the Senator from MA, George Frisbie Hoar.

The story is interesting, as if my research is correct, James Hoar left New England after getting into "some type of trouble" with (possibly) pirates off the MA coast. He settled in Fayette County, Pennsylvania.

Well, Senator Hoar comissioned a well know genealogist (his name escapes me) to do a genealogical study of his family. He took his family line back to the Lisle line in England, and it is through that peerage, I believe, that connects my line to the royal houses of Europe.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

In checking out your Lord FitzMaurice, on one site it lists his descendants who are still prominent in England.

Facinating stuff...

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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400NitroExpress
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47641 - 24/01/06 01:04 AM

Pakenham's book is a good read. I read it several years ago. Researching these rifles is a lot of fun.
----------------------------------------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47643 - 24/01/06 01:39 AM

clark

I am related, through my Father's Mother, to a Count deLisle, a French Privateer during the American Revolution. He evidently sailed with John Paul Jones on some of his attacks on England. Is this the same Lisle family?

It is amazing where some of the trails go if you go far enough back.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47669 - 24/01/06 05:22 AM

In reply to:

I joke about my ancestry and say that I have HOARs in my family tree - my gggreatgrand father married a Sarah Jane Hoar, who was the son of James Hoar - he was a member of a "prominent Massachusetts" family and was the cousin of the Senator from MA, George Frisbie Hoar.

The story is interesting, as if my research is correct, James Hoar left New England after getting into "some type of trouble" with (possibly) pirates off the MA coast. He settled in Fayette County, Pennsylvania.

Well, Senator Hoar comissioned a well know genealogist (his name escapes me) to do a genealogical study of his family. He took his family line back to the Lisle line in England, and it is through that peerage, I believe, that connects my line to the royal houses of Europe.




Any relation to Michael Hoare, the infamous "African" resident?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #47672 - 24/01/06 05:25 AM

In reply to:

Poster: mickey
Subject: Re: Are Doubles just for DG?

clark

I am related, through my Father's Mother, to a Count deLisle, a French Privateer during the American Revolution. He evidently sailed with John Paul Jones on some of his attacks on England. Is this the same Lisle family?

It is amazing where some of the trails go if you go far enough back.




My ancestors were Germanic barbarians.

Or so I have been told.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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clark7781
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: NitroX]
      #47705 - 24/01/06 07:11 AM

NitroX:

Not sure - I haven't look at my research in about 2.5 years. I'll have to do some digging and see what I can scare up...

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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k80
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47731 - 24/01/06 11:49 AM

The picture is my great times 6
Grandfather

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: clark7781]
      #47773 - 24/01/06 04:43 PM

Clark

Col. Michael Hoare was the infamous mercenary captain of the 1960's - Congo and Katanga, the "Wild Geese", the Seychelles fiasco. Not your average accountant!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: NitroX]
      #47774 - 24/01/06 05:03 PM


Col. Michael Hoare, commonly known as Mad Mike Hoare !!!

500 Nitro


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mickey
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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: NitroX]
      #47819 - 25/01/06 01:09 AM

In reply to:

Poster: NitroX
Subject: Re: Are Doubles just for DG?

......

My ancestors were Germanic barbarians.

Or so I have been told.






I can believe that.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Re: Are Doubles just for DG? [Re: mickey]
      #68131 - 27/12/06 11:48 PM

BTTT. Christmas thread "spinner".

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