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The best 4x4
      #46 - 26/12/02 03:15 PM

From: Bigfive (Original Message) Sent: 6/6/2002 11:51 PM
As for my experianc ethe best off-road vehicle is a Toyota Landcruiser Pick-Up.They are widely used in Africa and very reliable.One catch-expensive!!!

You get them in a 4.2litre diesel and a 4.5l petrol engine.They use a lot of gas but then on the other hand you never have a problem with power.

My own vehicle is Isuzu KB260 2x4.I've done nearly 300000km and it is still going strong.If you look at the thing you can see that it has been in the hunting grounds plenty of times and there is a lot of bush scars.There is even a 9mm pistol shot through my right door.Looking to buy a new pick-up but they are just to expensive.Or at least here in South-Africa.

Good driving

Bigfive


2-6 of 6 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion

From: Nitro Sent: 7/4/2002 10:04 PM
BF

I drive a Landcruiser, a 4.2 litre diesel commercial model. Not a pick-up or tray-top though, mine is a sedan. The tray-tops are the ideal for hunting, carting gear and carcasses though. Lots of them are used in the Outback as well. Parts are readily available which can also be important. I purchased mine second hand from a Government vehicle auction so managed to get it a trade price. Good fuel economy too, but not that fast, especially the acceleration when overtaking.

Before that I drove a Mitsubishi Pajero short wheel base, which met an untimely end unfortunately due to a flooded road, a very low fence and a roll or two. That vehicle was great. Much more manoverable than the Cruiser, good around corners, not bad on overtaking. Fuel economy 50% to 70% only of the Cruiser. Not very roomy though.

Before that a Nissan Patrol, a very old model, had trouble getting to 80 kph, by the end was using 4miles to the gallon(!), and in hot weather the fuel vaporised in the fuel lines, meaning you had to let the vehicle cool down every half hour. Only ever took that one outback trip with it.

A contender for the Landcruiser has to be the Landrover, the 110 or whatever the current model is. Better lower gearing than the Cruiser. Butprobablyevenslower.

Just my experiences.

Nitro






Message 3 of 6 in Discussion

From: moss Sent: 9/28/2002 12:18 PM
Well, I have to go with the 2000 silverado chevy pickup. Sports the 5300 vortex engine, very powerfull with a offroad package and the towing package to boot, air conditioner, CD player along with cassett player, leather and all electric. has a 22.5 gal fuel tank and gets around 18mpg off road, 26 on the highway.
I've posted pic's of the one I bought the wife.....he he he






Message 4 of 6 in Discussion

From: Nitro Sent: 10/17/2002 5:35 PM
Moss

Great pickup - called a "ute" down here.

Do the red ones go faster? Maybe I should be asking Redbeard that, I think.

It looks way too cold for me in that picture.


Message 5 of 6 in Discussion

From: Nitro Sent: 10/17/2002 5:39 PM
BigFive

Just a thought - how many of those 300,000 kms were by pushing it?

He he he he ie + a hot and tired face


Message 6 of 6 in Discussion

From: Honey badger Sent: 11/21/2002 6:56 AM
I hope you don't mind me digging up an old post. Moss, why do you need air conditioning - there's 3 feet of snow on the ground. Just open the window! This is my old Series III Land Rover built in 1975 and still going strong. Its not completely standard: 3500 Rover V8 engine, power steering and overdrive. But its not these things that make it great. Its simply that its a Land Rover - The Best 4x4xFar!






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Prev_Forum
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #161 - 29/12/02 11:47 PM

From: hunt375 (Original Message) Sent: 7/5/2002 7:17 AM
The best 4x4? this is a matter of choice. Over in the states its the four
wheel drive pickup. Ford, Chevy,or Dodge these are the most popular of the
4x4's I drive a 78 Ford that I just had referbished new paint, new bucket
seats, new motor and tranny all total I have put 17 grand in this truck,
but I now have a new truck, and for a lot less then a new one cost. The new
trucks are running around 35 to 40 thousand dollars for a basic truck with
no frills. That is to damn much money for a truck. My truck is putting out
300 horsepower the gas mileage is not that great but I love the power.

Bob Carpenter
Helena, Montana




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Marty
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #495 - 05/01/03 06:06 PM

Toyota Landcruiser are the 4x4 by which others are judged (just look at Nissans latest advertising campaign). Landrover are OK too but I think the Japs have it over them now. Great in the 50's, unfortunately they didnt move with the times.

US trucks just dont do it for me. Not convinced they're rugged enough for Aussie or African conditions, hence the propensity for Tojo's in both regions. US trucks are just a bit too "pretty"

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4seventy
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Marty]
      #3057 - 30/05/03 06:09 PM

For my money one of the best 4x4 setups is a tojo fitted with a GM V8 diesel.
Big improvement both onroad and off.
Very good overtaking power on the highway, unbelievable torque for sneaking along at idle in the bush, and still retains good fuel economy.


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Crazyquik
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Marty]
      #7719 - 29/01/04 12:00 PM

In reply to:

Not convinced they're rugged enough for Aussie or African conditions, hence the propensity for Tojo's in both regions. US trucks are just a bit too "pretty"





'Yota doesn't bring the models to the US that they do Africa or Down Under. We get a couple light pickups, and a Land Cruiser that is a luxery full size behemoth. A far cry from the Cruiser that is popular overseas. No diesels either. We did get the FJ40 back in the 70s which has a bit of a cult following here now.

But we get the Jeep Wrangler


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Siskiyous6
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #21171 - 23/11/04 05:55 AM

Ford F-250.

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kamilaroi
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Siskiyous6]
      #22759 - 28/12/04 06:04 PM

Dear all,

If I might digress. A humble VW may be the most adaptable beast of all. viz the kubelwagen; the later variant is the 181/ 182 "thing" in USA. I have a local aussie built variant; "country buggy" converted to type 3 IRS and super low gearing (20:1) with locking diff.
This thing floats and goes almost anywhere (at 1080kg with gas).
10" ground clearance and short overhangs help at 52 degrees approach and 35 departure. Light enough to push out of a bog or bulldust hole. pity the ADR "safety" design rules here mean that there is no more chance of a "poor peoples car". abs, esc, ehd, wan(k) yadah, yadah, yadah
Who deeds this when prudent driving is THE cost effective option? As Bean etc traversed the "Red Centre" etc in the 1920's in nothing more than vehicles with much ground clearance, low rev torque and low speed gears (Ford T models etc) what more rough track capability do people need now?

regards

K


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wharf
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #25155 - 25/01/05 10:00 PM

I own a diesel nissan patrol.It goes where ever i need to go.Bullet proof running gear.Toyotas have a bit of a weak link in there diffs and gearboxes.(hope I havent stired up the hornets nest)I now how you cruiser men are about your toyotas.But i wouldnt own a GU,The GQs are the best.

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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #25217 - 26/01/05 11:41 PM

...really like the newer land rovers for their off-road capabilities (hill descent control, permanent 4wd, multiple diffs (4wd, f-r axles, etc), stability controls, self-leveling, etc...

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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #25224 - 27/01/05 01:23 AM



The Toyota HZJ78/9 (also known as the "Troopcarrier"). The 4x4 to choose for any serious longterm use. And this coming from the owner of a LR Defender 110 TD5 that travelled the length of africa without a problem...

But I have to face facts, and if this Toyota model was avialable in Norway, that would have been my choice. It will outlast a LR for various reasons, has better workmanship and quality control, the Toyotas 4.2L diesel is what the Defender 110 should have, instead of the LRs much smaller TD5 (or the previous 300TDi). It will simply beat any other 4x4, be they European, American or Japanese in the long run. Which is why it is found all over africa, and prefered by UN, NGOs and military personell all over the 3rd world. When given a choice!

There is one area where a Defender will top the Troopcarrier, and that is when it comes to wheel articulation in uneven terrain. Wheel articulation is important when offroad driving. However a difflock front and rear will even out the differance if used by a driver who knows what he's doing. I've been in several situations where I had to use full diff lock front and rear even with our Defenders long wheel travel though.

There is one other really cool possibility though for those in need of a bit more space in a 4x4, but with not as much increase in total lenth as you might think. The Bremach Extreme :


Bremach

Erik



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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25243 - 27/01/05 12:42 PM

...yes, long term reliability has always been an issue for land rovers...don't think you can get that toyota in the states...so the realistic choices are the rovers, mercedes g5's (tho not really practical and sort of like taking a beretta 455 eell or h+h royale grade into thorns as a poster stated previously), toyota land cruiser, hummer h-1 + 2, etc...

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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #25252 - 27/01/05 07:37 PM

Thomas,

Can you get a LR Defender in the US? With a diesel engine? I thought you guys only got the fancier Discovery and of course Range Rover.

You mention the Hummer H2, and although I have never used one myself, I have understood that the mechanical parts are basically a Chevy Tahoe. A good car for some uses perhaps, but not something to take really off-road. I hear they snap half-shafts very easily.

Re. the Mercedes Gelėndewagen, these used to be real off-road machines and are used by many military forces (in a cheap diesel version of course!). Unfortunatly they have consentrated their focus towards luxery the past few years, and are now filled with too much electronics. I don't even know if the trusty 300GDI diesel is available anymore. The G-wagen, just as the Toyota LC HZJ78 has little wheel travel, and is thus dependant on difflocks front and back (which have been standard equipment on them since day 1).

Mercedes does make another very cool 4x4 though; the Unimog. Yes it's a "truck", but not actually bigger than a Hummer H1. Unfortunatly they cost a fortune...



Yet another interesting 4x4 (or 6x6 if you choose) that your nabour most likely won't have is the Pinzgauer:



Pinzgauer movie clip

My cousin has one in 4x4 (it's actually shorter than my LR Defender!), and it will take you wherever you want to go!

EDIT: I forgot to mention that he has also has a Unimog, an old Land Cruiser and a Volvo military 4x4 too... OK, I admit he's a bit of a 4x4 nut! But he has a lot of fun, that's for sure!

Erik



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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25255 - 27/01/05 11:35 PM

dunia,

...yes, i have seen quite a few defenders and understand that they are essentially sourced through private importers who then need to comply with the various states' smog, saftey, etc. requirements (which pushes up the final cost quite considerably)...one thing i noticed with most state-side defenders is that they seem to exhibit advanced stages of corrosion...perhaps this is due to the lack of corrosion protection offered by most of the mainstream auto producers...although i would think that you in norway would know better about this...

...heard about the tahoe chassis used by the h-2, but also heard that the vehicle is quite competent in an off-road environment...can't verify this independently one way or the other...but they seem quite bulky which may account for the broken axels...

...can certainly attest to the toyota's off-roading prowess...once took an off-road path through the himalaya's in a first gen land cruiser (every three of four vehicles in tibet seemed to be a toyota)...had to brace my hands to the ceiling to avoid the whiplash caused by the 1 - 2 feet boulders...but the toyota kept trudging through without a hitch...

...looks as through you are an off-road - in addition to gaming - enthusiast...

good shooting/hunting/off-roading


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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #25271 - 28/01/05 02:31 AM

In reply to:

...looks as through you are an off-road - in addition to gaming - enthusiast...





Thomas,

My offroad enthusiasm is based more on using a 4x4 as a tool, and not necessarily a toy. To me they are tools to get me where I want to go, which would otherwise be impossible. I have gone offroading for fun some times here in Norway, but those have been rare occations.

However, being interested in using a 4x4 to go off the beaten track thru africa, I'm always on the lookout for good tips, or good equipment. I have been considering for some time a new trans african trip from south to north, via some of the central african countrys we missed on the way down, such as Angola and DRC. This would be without my wife and daughter due to security reasons. But then I'm getting so attached to my baby daughter that I'm not so sure anymore that I would want to be away from her for so long (4-6 months). Maybe I'm becoming a softie!!!

Now that the size of our family has increased with our baby daughter, my wife and I have been discussing how quickly we can go off to africa, taking her with us. We figure in about 3 years would be possible. A 4 month trip thru west africa, revisiting places of interest would be nice, as it is generally a child friendly region. But living for an extended time in a LR Defender with a small child is not a very good idea IMO. Thus, I've come to like the Bremach pictured in a post above more and more. It'll go anywhere a LR will, but with room for a kid or 2 in the back. I'm thinking that the Bremach might be the solution for us. Finances permitting!

Time will tell!

Erik



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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25318 - 28/01/05 02:41 PM

dunia,

...now that would certainly be an adventure...would you also bring a turnbolt / double or two for the game pot whilst traveling?...for your situation, the bremack looks to be the perfect solution, tho i would also add that in my experience, kids really can't appreciate 'world adventures' until they are around 5 - 7 + years old...at that point the adventure becomes part of their most memorable experiences in life and somewhat frames their life outlook...

good hunting/shooting/off-roading/adventuring


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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #25325 - 28/01/05 07:47 PM

Thomas,

I only wish a rifle was possible to bring on such trips. But alas it is not. Unless one wants to get acquainted with an african prison, which is not a nice thought! The one question we almost invariably got when crossing boarders was if we had any weapons. And they seach vehicles too, although we were spared this for the most time. I think due to our calm and courteous demeanour, and at the same time letting them understand that we wouldn't tolerate BS. Showing that you are easily intimidated is the fisrt step towards major hassle with african police/soldiers/paramilitary. They'll milk you for every drop they're able to just for the fun of it...

The fact that we in some countrys could drive a mere 50 km into the country and purchase an blackmarket AK-47 was obviously not important to them! And then there is the fact that in west africa (which is closest, and thus easiest to access) there are very few animals left. At least until you get to Burkina Faso, Ghana, Togo and Benin...

As for kids "travel appreciation age", I agree with you. However, our thoughts have been more towards when she will be old enough to explain where something is hurting, basic needs etc., and less towards her understanding what she is seeing. That'll be for later trips!

I see by the name you call me that you've been to our website. Hope you enjoyed it!

good hunting/shooting/off-roading/adventuring to you too!

Erik


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coues
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25341 - 29/01/05 03:18 AM

3 of the best 4x4's I and my family have had are IH SCOUTS.
We had them well past 350thousand miles. The hard part is finding replacement parts these days.


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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25382 - 29/01/05 12:40 PM

...i thought the 'd' in erikd was dunia (which also means 'world')...

...actually, the turnbolt / double - gamepot reference was an attempt to harken back to the carefree world of yesterday during the time of bell, pondoro, etc...today's africa is, sadly, quite different...

...whatever you should decide, i think your daughter is one luck child...

all the best,


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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #25393 - 29/01/05 06:28 PM

Thomas,

Dunia as a last name would be kind of cool! But it isn't mine. However I know that it is occationally used as a firstname for girls in some arabic countries.

My wife and I discussed various african names/words to use for our website, and ended up with the Swahili (and Arabic) "Dunia". It has a nice ring to our ears and is easily pronounced by both Europeans and Africans. And considering the lenth of the trip, Dunia is actually quite a fitting name in a way.

I could only wish that the ways of yesteryear were still possible. In fact, my wife and I have discussed many a time that we were born 100 years later than we should have been. We have a feeling that we might have "fit in" better back then!

Erik


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ThomasEdwards
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #25433 - 30/01/05 01:32 PM

thanks for the background, erik...

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Swampfox
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Prev_Forum]
      #69296 - 11/01/07 10:04 AM

After more than 33 years driving different cars, i love at most my old Toyota Landcruiser HJ 60 !!!!
He brought me for many times up over the polarcyrcle and i never had have a problem with this wonderfull reliable car.With a rooftent and a weight nearly 3 tonns,he only need to take 10 ltr of Diesel.The 6 Cylinder runs like a swiss clock.The car is 25 years old, in a perfect condition and i will go this year again with him up to the norwegian finmark.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o230/schamispecht/DSCN0253.jpg

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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Swampfox]
      #69400 - 13/01/07 05:29 AM

Swampfox,

The HJ 60 is an excellent vehicle. And probably one of the most popular in North Africa for example, where reliability is very important. They keep running and running with only simple maintenance.

Are you pleased with your rooftop tent? I know a German couple whom I met in Morocco and Mauritania who have one just like yours. They spent a year in Africa living in it, and as far as I recall had no major problems. The "shower curtain" hanging down behind did flap a bit in the wind though.

I hope you enjoy your trip up to Finnmark. I like it a lot up there myself. Might I suggest you drive via Lofoten on the way up (the little chain of islands outside Bodų). It's probably my favorite part of Norway, and very scenic. There are no problems camping where ever you want either in my experiance.



Camping a bit south of Alta:


Erik


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Double_Trouble
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #69410 - 13/01/07 07:40 AM

Erik:
that Pinzgauer is the real deal!
the sales movie is impressive as hell.... they must be huge bucks!

DT

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Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.


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EricD
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #69417 - 13/01/07 10:27 AM

DT,

The Pinzgauer is definately the real deal.



I don't know how much a new one costs (quite a lot over $100K I'd think), but used ones (20 year old that haven't gone much more than 30.000km) can be found from about $15K - $20K as far as I recall.

Pinzgauer brochure

Erik


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Swampfox
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Re: The best 4x4 [Re: EricD]
      #69456 - 14/01/07 10:44 AM

Erik,
please excuse my english.
yes i am very pleased with this rooftoptent.Its an Autocamp
http://www.autocamp.de/sites/index.php?s...0&auswahl=0
and the fabric is called Airtex.
This material is absolutely wind and waterproof and this is a big advantage in the rough northern areas. (you must know it better than me )
All so the "shower curtain" is a very good feature,because when it is rainy outside you can get on and off your clothes in a dry and windstill area and hang them up for drying over night. You also can sit and eat or cook in this part of the tent. When its cold outside i put a little heater on the floor and the warm air comes up and keeps the sleepingpart on the roof warm ;-javascript:void(0)
)
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r218/schamispecht/DSCN0533.jpg
What is this for a rooftop tent you have on your car? looks like a hannibal.
thanks for your suggest driving via Lofoten,i never have been there.(The most southern part i have been in Norway,was Narvik) i have seen photos from this wonderful part of norway and i must say,it looks like in paradise.my favorite place in the finnmark is the area of Kautokeino,Lakselv and Alta,i love this Area....
But there is a lot nice places more to see in Norway

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" As long as there's lead in the air there's hope".


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