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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
This is insane
      #45610 - 03/01/06 12:55 PM

Check out this load. Anyone know this dude?

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=269&BulletWeight=500&LoadID=7621

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: This is insane [Re: bonanza]
      #45616 - 03/01/06 01:48 PM

Wow. That could get a guy hurt.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: This is insane [Re: 500grains]
      #45620 - 03/01/06 02:29 PM

Damn. Thats the same load I use in my 577 3". It's a good thing Bill Rugers dead. This guy is going to test soemones legal staff.

I sent them an email about it and would suggest others do the same as someone is going to put that in a Double Rifle and kill themselves.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: This is insane [Re: mickey]
      #45622 - 03/01/06 02:38 PM

Looks like he posted that load in May 2003...by now it is possible that all anyone remembers about him is hearing him yell "Hey watch this!" followed by an explosion...

Richard

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: This is insane [Re: rgp]
      #45635 - 03/01/06 08:44 PM

rgp:
I believe the quote was "Hold my beer and watch this..."

In any case, the load specifically states that it was safe in a Ruger No.1, and I'll bet it is. That's a huge case, and the No.1 is good for 55,000 psi plus a bit.

Anyone who tosses that load into a DR is simply adding weight to Darwin's theory! I wouldn't shed any tears over them.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: This is insane [Re: Marrakai]
      #45636 - 03/01/06 09:39 PM

Whoa. 8400 ft lbs...Doesn't a 577 make 7000? You know somebody put that in a DR. Definitely a Darwin Award contender.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: This is insane [Re: mickey]
      #45639 - 04/01/06 01:21 AM

I also sent them an email asking them to yank it. I added Graeme Wrights load and added "Safe for doubles"

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: This is insane [Re: Marrakai]
      #45640 - 04/01/06 01:22 AM

The ruger No# 1 has been tested to 70,000+ psi.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
Re: This is insane [Re: bonanza]
      #45645 - 04/01/06 02:30 AM

The Ruger Nr. 1 is, indeed, a very strong action....BUT...
The only rifle of my make which anyone ever blew-up was a #1. It was a .30-378, with a massive (five-inch full-diameter breech cylinder @ 1.2", and straight taper to the muzzle (30") @.875". The owner was responsible for the failure, and said so. He was testing handloads - fired two shots which he needed a cleaning rod to eject from the chamber (and knew this should have been a red light) but, because the first 2 were in one hole, he just HAD to fire the third shot - unfortunately, he had left the tip of the cleaning rod in the bore, about 4" ahead of the chamber. The barrel was split like a banana peel in four sections, from the breech to nearly 20" forward. The receiver ring was split about 1/4" back from the face, but did not fail. The barrel shank sections had been sprung clear of the receiver, but the barrel did not entirely separate from the receiver because the foreend hanger kept the bottom banana-peel section from falling out. The head of the case had expanded to the full width of the breechblock seat in the receiver, and had tried to crawl over the top of the block like toothpaste. The rifle was completely destroyed (and he only found the rear half of his very expensive scope). The shooter was not seriously hurt, by great good luck and the fact that he had been shooting over sandbags, so that his left hand and arm were not under the rifle (he'd have needed a BIG bandaid).
NOTHING is foolproof - fools are much too inventive.
And the load data which started this thread is very likely to ruin someone's DR, with injury very probable.
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: This is insane [Re: bonanza]
      #45648 - 04/01/06 03:05 AM

<< The ruger No# 1 has been tested to 70,000+ psi. >>

It does not follow that a 70,000 psi load is within the limits of sanity. 70,000 psi is about the maximum pressure before brass begins to flow and is considered a limiting factor for proof loads regardless of case or rifle design. Since the proof load is expected to run a pressure 30% higer than the working load, this implies a maximum working pressure of around 54,000 psi, regardless of case or rifle design.

There are probably a very few rifles out there that exceed these limits, but not by much, and they are pushing the edge.

The Ruger test is one of those, "How much abuse can it take before it comes unglued?" tests. Like firing a 357 S$W revovler with a solid barrel with no bore. Ya, it stayed together, but you wouldn't want to run that kind of pressure unless you can afford lots of revolvers and you have a good supply of long strings for pulling triggers.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: This is insane [Re: unspellable]
      #45689 - 04/01/06 07:10 AM

Many rifle ctgs. today, run regularly at 65,00PSI breech pressure. Some very few expamples are .260Rem, .243, 7mm/08, .270Win, and many others, both larger and smaller. Most of the short and standard length magnums run 62,000 to 65,000PSI.
: For something frightening to contemplate, even the NEF break-open single shots are chambered for the .243 and .270Win., both at the extreme top end of the pressure range. Even the new LowWalls by Browning were chambered for the .243. Actually, I should have said even the new NEF's as I'd trust the brand new Low Walls before the break-guns.
: The switch from Copper Units of Pressure to PSI has been a painful one as they aren't directly transferrable in numbers in most ctgs now used - very few in fact, and only at some prssure levels are they equal in number - some pistol and the odd straight-case rifle rounds. Reloading data is being rewritten, both up and down from previous posted maximums when changing to Pounds Per Square Inch. Many sourses interchange these names.
: The Rugers were 'proofed' BEFORE PSI came into the lime light. I'd expect they were tested at CUP units of pressure, a full 70,000 of them. Since most of the rounds mentioned above run 50,000 to 57,000CUP, it stands to reason CUP was the unit used in testing the Rugers, not PSI - a different kettle of fish entirely.
: I-for one, certainly don't condone loading to levels the brass itself wasn't manufactured for.
: Hope this helps shed some 'light' on the CUP/PSI problem.
: This is, as I understand the phenominum.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: This is insane [Re: DarylS]
      #45705 - 04/01/06 10:14 AM

Guess I was still thinking CUP when I typed the above. Bottom line though, is there is a pressure beyond which the brass will flow and there will be a failure regardless of the rifle or case design.

As for actual designs, they can be foolers as to which is strongest and why, strength is not always intuitively obvious.

The remarkable part is that it's the last 5% of performance that requires pushing the envelope to extremes and there is always some fool who has to have that last 5%. Plus 5% more.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: This is insane [Re: DarylS]
      #45729 - 04/01/06 03:58 PM

Leave 'em alone and let natural selection take it's course.

In reply to:

"The switch from Copper Units of Pressure to PSI has been a painful one as they aren't directly transferrable in numbers in most cartridges now used - very few in fact, and only at some pressure levels are they equal in number - "



Entirely true, crusher measurements and piezo electric transducer measurements aren't convertible. Few people realize how serious a problem the conversion to piezo has been. It's bad enough with ordinary cartridges that had pressure standards in CUP to begin with, but at least CUP and PSI measure the same thing with a different yardstick - radial (sidewall) chamber pressure. With the cartridges that we discuss on this forum - the British flanged nitro expresses intended for use in double rifles - its much worse, because the British didn't measure chamber pressure at all. They standardized on bolt thrust, expressed in long tons, instead. No one seemed to understand this when CIP converted to piezo, and much of the factory nitro express ammunition loaded since then (and much of the handloading data developed and tested in piezo guns) has been overloaded. A few doubles have been blown up, and quite a few damaged.
---------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: This is insane [Re: bonanza]
      #45735 - 04/01/06 05:38 PM

Yeah I was thinking the same thing when I was looking at that the other day... Simply crazy...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: This is insane (update) [Re: Chasseur]
      #45743 - 05/01/06 02:44 AM

Got this in the mail:

Hi

Scott Wink didn't leave his email address along with his loads.
I have reviewed his loads and to me they seem way too hot. Based on this I have deleted this four loads in 450 NE #2 from Scott Wink.

Regards,
Morten
www.reloadersnest.com


--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: This is insane (update) [Re: bonanza]
      #45767 - 05/01/06 06:01 AM

I got this also.

Hi

Thanks for pointing this out for me. I have deleted all 4 loads from this
reloader.
Thanks again!

Regards,
Morten
www.reloadersnest.com

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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