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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Federal 470NE surprise
#44619 - 22/12/05 11:36 AM

n the name of science I pulled the bullets from three Federal 470NE softs and weighed the powder. Contrary to popular opinion on this forum it is not 87 or 89, but 93.5 gains average!

Yes boys and girls, that was $30.00 worth of ammo sacrificed and this was a dolphin safe experiment.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5273
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44620 - 22/12/05 11:45 AM

Bravo!

But . . . why didn't you put them back together? Wouldn't cost anything then.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: CptCurl]
#44626 - 22/12/05 12:13 PM

I am going to reuse the brass, but the bullets are damaged.

BTW, they are friggin huge, 1.25" long

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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BlainSmipy
.375 member

Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44633 - 22/12/05 01:42 PM

Get a bullet puller, Pop had one.

colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: BlainSmipy]
#44675 - 23/12/05 02:24 AM

Conventional reloading tools go out the window when you start working with these large cartridges and calibers.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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LGF
.275 member

Reged: 27/04/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Kenya/Berkeley, CA

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44679 - 23/12/05 04:31 AM

Which would explain why 87g gave me 2060 fps.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: LGF]
#44682 - 23/12/05 07:02 AM

What Powder and Barrel length ?

500 Nitro

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new_guy
Sponsor

Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44685 - 23/12/05 08:56 AM

I'm sure the powders vary a bit by lot numbers, but I, too, would have expected the charge to be closer to the rumored 87gr.

Perhaps they load to velocity for each given lot?

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: new_guy]
#44686 - 23/12/05 09:23 AM

It all depends on the powder they are using.

I load up to 102 grains of a certain powder
in various 470's.

Federal use a primer that is not available to
reloaders. That could also make a difference.

500 Nitro

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: 500Nitro]
#44689 - 23/12/05 09:56 AM

500Nitro,

I think Federal uses only Reloader 15 in their .470 NE and .416 Rigby loads.

The primer is a #216 which they do not intend to sell to the public.

Richard

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nitro476
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44693 - 23/12/05 10:31 AM

Bullet pullers for 470 and other nitro cartridges are available.

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chrispie
.275 member

Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: nitro476]
#44708 - 23/12/05 01:14 PM

pullers can be purchased though midway.com, i got one for my 500, and a buddy of mine got one for his 470, they work great, and are super fast.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=680804

and the collets are only 9.89 each. they have it for .475 and .500. the .500 does work even though the 500NE is .510, it just grabs the tip of the bullet and out it comes.

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Judson
.300 member

Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44778 - 24/12/05 12:47 PM

I know that most of you do not but a great bullet puller is a metal lathe. You chuck your case collet in the three jaw chuck and pull your bullets with the jacobs chuck in the tail stock. Yes it is a bit slow but it works great and no damage to the bullet unless you get carried away a bit.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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sbs470
.333 member

Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: Judson]
#44810 - 25/12/05 12:23 AM

Hi Guys
It is so simple to make a bullet puller for both 470 and 500 cases .
Take one popular green kinetic bullet puller hammer.If the case dosen't fit run a drill down till it does,it won't be much material that has to be taken out.If you have acess to a lathe turn up a washer that will take the 470/500 case body and turn down the outside diameter so it will fit inside the plastic nut when it is tightened.then turn up another washer a bit thicker so that it fits up inside the top of the nut,bore a hole larger than the primer and the job is done ,when you are ready to dismantel you rounds place a foam ear plug in the bottom of the hammer so you don't damage the projectile
MERRY CHRISTMAS
sbs470

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44827 - 25/12/05 08:30 AM

The powder Federal uses is non-cannister grade. Early Federal .470 varied considerably, lot to lot. I hear they're adjusting the charge now to allow for density variations between lots. 7.5% isn't surprising. I've run into that much with off the rack RL 15.

LGF:

What barrel length? I have no idea what data Federal is using, but the Kynoch standard ballistics for .470 were for 75 grains cordite and a 500 grain bullet for 2125 fps from a 31" pressure barrel. If your barrels are 24", 2060 fps would be fairly warm.
------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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LGF
.275 member

Reged: 27/04/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Kenya/Berkeley, CA

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#44851 - 25/12/05 03:46 PM

400Nitro: Yep, 24" barrel, Searcy.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#44862 - 25/12/05 11:47 PM

"The powder Federal uses is non-cannister grade. Early Federal .470 varied considerably, lot to lot. I hear they're adjusting the charge now to allow for density variations between lots. 7.5% isn't surprising. I've run into that much with off the rack RL 15."

Do you mind explaing this in more detail? What is cannister grade and what is powder density variation? I'm not stupid, but these are new terms for me.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Rusty
.333 member

Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: bonanza]
#44864 - 26/12/05 02:42 AM

Powder manufacturer try to maintain a consistency of charge in their canister powders, (What we buy over the counter).

As this was explained to me, they blend the powders, so that a charge of a Brand of powder you use will have some consistency to it no matter when you buy it. Supposedly it will have the same burn rate and pressure from batch to batch.

This is analogous to Single Malt Whisky distillers blending within a particular Single Malt to preserve and maintain a certain taste or quality.

Non-canister are used by manufacturers and they simple vary the charge of powder from batch to batch to maintain a velocity and pressure for each cartridge they manufacture.

I would not be surprised in the Federal rounds having a different powder charge depending on the lot or batch.

I think this explains the basic difference.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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k80
.333 member

Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: Rusty]
#44865 - 26/12/05 03:39 AM

When explained in "Single Malt" terms
I understand.

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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Rusty
.333 member

Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: k80]
#44866 - 26/12/05 04:14 AM

Ken,
I suggest we "Drink to that!" at the DSC convention in January!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Federal 470NE surprise [Re: Rusty]
#44928 - 27/12/05 01:03 AM

Thanks. With that valuable news, I'm going to suggest that we all stick to the "standard" 87 to 89 grains of RL15 and ignore how much powder came out of my cases.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras:

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