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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #96123 - 06/02/08 07:27 PM

600gr slug over 2000 fps in an NEF??


You guys....!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Marrakai]
      #96161 - 07/02/08 06:43 AM

That's rather interesting, Marrakai. Perhaps the standard shotgun NEF can handle it, however they aren't the same action as the centrefire rifles, however- according to NEF.
; Whether there is a differnce in design or material or both, I don't know.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #96213 - 07/02/08 11:11 PM

I have shot full Nitro loads in my 500 NE 3 1/4 on rebarreled - NEF- ! Too much recoil ,like scary recoil ! I now use 535 gr @ 1850 fps NFB type load ,very easy to shoot .
I think rifle action is better steel & heat treated ? but same design !

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Sarg]
      #96284 - 08/02/08 01:12 PM

The newer 10ga and 12ga Ultra NEFs are the SB2 strong action just like their
big bore rifles. The only difference is shotgun has a larger diameter
firing pin. The SB2 is an investment cast, properly heat treated,
action like a Ruger 77 bolt gun. And it is almost twice as strong as the
SB1 action they make, for their 12ga Pardner series, their 20 ga Ultra,
and various others.I have both 10 and 12ga on SB2 and so far they've
taken a beating and are still tight.And the 12 has a thumbhole stock
and weighted to 15 lbs and it even handles 600 gr at 2500, from
long brass case, that fits in the lengthened chamber.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

Edited by hubel458 (08/02/08 01:16 PM)

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #96613 - 12/02/08 03:21 PM

28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. Tested the Great Plains 54cal
lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is
by Hornady and its front band actually measures
.550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight.
Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that
are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each.
All will work in plastic or long brass
case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and
it will go on a Mossberg bolt action
for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #97048 - 19/02/08 03:42 PM

Tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. Same speeds as above for GPs.
They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed
__________________

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #99025 - 12/03/08 11:49 AM

In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases,
1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227
powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting
some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special
longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads
with less case expansion and easier resizing.
Should get same slug to 3000 and resize
easier also. With shotgun primer able to use
4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer
or firing pin to do big primers.

Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases used in little
cannons for bomb disposal. Got 12 now.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

Edited by hubel458 (12/03/08 11:54 AM)

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #99748 - 20/03/08 03:17 PM

Here is picture of the Enfield bolt,
showing the 2 rear lugs I added.
The huge bolt handle base 3rd rear lug.
Bolt handle needs polishing.This one
will be in the action for the 8GA FH.
The Enfield I have 700H in is like
this also.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #100498 - 27/03/08 12:34 PM

Here is picture of the 4 slugs I've used in
the 28GA FH load developement in the
3.25" long brass case and they
also work in the plastic cases. Ed




--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #100963 - 31/03/08 12:54 PM

THE 8GA FH BELLERED TODAY. It is in Enfield I rigged with
rear locking bolt lugs. 32" barrel, tested 3.3" plastic cases.
Cases are the REM kiln gun cases. With the double cup base.
I shaved base a little so that chamber will fire these as well as
regular 8ga plastic. None of the firing today expanded base cups
at all, so they are real strong cases. Started testing to check
ignition with shotgun primers and to see if cases are any
good. Starting with a 110 gr mouse ball, wad under it, and 150 gr
of Blue Dot, about 5000 fps.. Gun didn't even recoil.Then a
410 gr one at 3000 fps, Then a 770 gr hollowbase slug in a wadcup
up to 2000 so far with 180gr of 7383. Barrel is smoothbore .832"
bore at the muzzle. Ed

Edited by hubel458 (31/03/08 03:51 PM)

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #101556 - 04/04/08 05:00 PM

Some 8GA FH testing- using IMR 4759, 770 gr slug,
top load of 140 gr, got 2500 fps......
Over 10,000 ft lbs..Cases extract easy.
The plastic in 8ga case is twice as thick as
in 12ga cases. Tried 4227 and case is too large
diameter for dependable ignition.So it's
old dependable 4759..Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #101966 - 08/04/08 01:55 PM

Here is picture of Enfield 8GA FH. You can see plastic case
in the port. Box of cases behind, 770 gr and 1050 gr
slugs in front with the 8ga wadcups I use.
Left two slugs are 1050 gr made from 3 oz kiln slugs.
I rounded nose and put in hollow base. Also the
cards and fiber wads used. Slugs are hollowbase, as
it is smooth bore barrel. Ed




--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #102473 - 14/04/08 06:06 PM

In picture of the 8ga bolt action you can see the
ring I put on front of bolt to support large diameter
8ga casehead. It is suported against thrust by the
front lugs, and total bolt thrust is supported by rear
lugs and have taken the heavy loads ok.. Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #102496 - 15/04/08 01:11 AM

Acc.Arm's 5744 should work as well as 4759. maybe better, maybe not.
: You would know where to start better than I. Still haven't gotten around to testing my 4227 loads in the 12 bore. Shoulder won't take much right now.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #102601 - 16/04/08 02:26 PM

Quote:

Acc.Arm's 5744 should work as well as 4759. maybe better




I agree.

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: ]
      #102677 - 17/04/08 04:57 PM

5744 is used a lot in large cases with partial filling of
cases with powder. But you can't fill the large cases to
90-100% as pressure climbs to much in big cases

Others tested 5744 and it is ok up so far. Shotgun cases are
in the realm of large cases. It works with wads,
to take up air space ok, but you can only get half the weight
of 4759 or 4227 loads before peak pressures are too high
above the limit that we want, which is about 15000 psi in
12ga.And still not get velocities that 4759 and 4227 get.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

Edited by hubel458 (17/04/08 05:00 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #102711 - 18/04/08 01:30 AM

I understand. So far 4759 seems to be the only powder that will make 2,500fps in the big "8". This is unfortunate, as that is only in the ballistic range you've accomplished in the 12 bore. I would have thought this ctg. would make 2,500fps with a 1,500gr. slug. A little much for deer, but a great comfort with a charging brown bear. The shot would knock you out of the way, and quite likely stop a charge even if not a lethal hit.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #103536 - 26/04/08 03:15 AM

The gun is the limiting factor. If we had big bolt gun, front
lugs, we could get 770 gr to 3000+, 1050 gr to 2700+ in plastic.
A brass case could do more.But it's not bad for plastic.

I also have two other cartridges with my name
on them that I am promoting. They are my 700HE
and my 585BHE. They both belted straight cases.
Montana Rifle company is coming out with their
big PH action and some guys will be doing my
cases in them.
Info on the 585BHE. It will work in
any gun that handles 505 Gibbs like Enfield, CZ,
Ruger,etc.Mine is in Enfield.Here is picture of
of one next to Trex. And mine holds 15gr more
powder than that Trex case. 585BHE will do 750
grain from 1800 to 2800 fps in my Enfield.
Anyone interested setting up a gun, contact me
I will furnish reamer and 15 free cases. Cases are
headstamped. When done return reamer to me, for
the next guy. I will keep them sharpened. After a
few guys have guns we all will get together with
others wanting some and get a run of brass made.
These cases are all drawn high pressure brass.
I'd like guys to ask for reamer when gun is going
to be ready to chamber, that way reamers get the
most guns done in shortest time.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #103537 - 26/04/08 04:09 AM

Ed - some time ago, Les Bauska used to make up overly-large Ruger-style #1 Actions chambered for the .600 Nitro. A note to his son might shed some light on this for action size, rim size allowance, etc, and if the outfit who cast the actions for Les is still in operation. A huge #1 Action would make a fine modern 8 bore me thinks - kinda like so many English guns, but hammerless, of course.
: I'd really like to take you up on your offer of the reamer and cases, but alas, my shoulder will no longer take such punishment. Woe is me. Some day, we have to meet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #104005 - 01/05/08 03:51 PM

He isn't in business any more and none of
family is in it either.

On Fri May 2 8pm on the Science Channel ,they will have
an article about the heavy barrel cannons that shoot
the brass cases for bomb disposal.They are the same as
our 12GA FH case,when resized in my dies and are shown
in this thread a couple months back in picture.
It will show them using them for bomb disposal. Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #104448 - 07/05/08 01:13 PM

Testing 8GA FH in Enfield, 1050 gr slug in wad cup, 120 gr
of 4759, over 2000 fps. Cases extract easy. Hardly any
base cup expansion...Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #104452 - 07/05/08 03:34 PM

So when are you going to build a double !2 from hell?

Now that will be another beast and a half.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Shackleton
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Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: gryphon]
      #104617 - 09/05/08 03:07 PM

Quote:

So when are you going to build a double !2 from hell?

Now that will be another beast and a half.


Very interesting idea, but the weight would likely be unreal based on the heavy barrel diameter(thinking diameter of heavy barrel NEF), plus an action large enough for the barrel size AND strong enough for the pressure. Unless someone knows of an existing double that fills the bill a double, as interesting as it would be, would probably be a "from scratch" gun.

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Shackleton]
      #104670 - 10/05/08 11:59 AM

I have found a Zabala double that would work, but changing barrels
without the money, time, and good machinery, can't be done by me,
as I have 15 easier time consuming deals a going. Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #104873 - 12/05/08 03:23 PM

Here is picture of a sectioned 8ga plastic case
showing how heavy and strong it is built. The
plastic is one piece compressioned formed and
the sides of the cases are twice as thick as
12ga cases.You can see the double thickness
of the base cup. Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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