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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #90702 - 06/12/07 04:30 AM

In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #91420 - 13/12/07 12:15 PM

In the long barrel 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #92336 - 21/12/07 05:50 PM

10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. The 765 gr Fed slug is hollowbase for
smooth bores. Roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic cases.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #92540 - 24/12/07 12:20 PM

10GA FH info.Fed factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #93190 - 02/01/08 04:58 AM

Some interesting things we find......
First two cases are ours we had made by putting rims on bmg
brass, The right ones a santa sent me and appear to be
drawn, high strength case that are same dimensions.
Are they worth rounding up, seeing as how the guy
who made our first bunch just closed and retired. .......Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #93537 - 05/01/08 06:08 PM

In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1658
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #93541 - 05/01/08 09:26 PM

Hey ED!

Can the lever actioned 1887 Winnie copy be barreled with a 12 gauge(.735cal)rifled barrel??

Love your experiments

happy new year

Edited by rigbymauser (05/01/08 09:27 PM)


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2699
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: rigbymauser]
      #93542 - 05/01/08 09:32 PM

Damn, Ed!
You had me looking twice at a Sportco Model 53 12-bore bolt-gun on one of the gun-sites this morning!

(Eeeew! Off to wash my mouth out...!)

Still, if any Savage 210 actions turn up here at the right price I would certainly be interested.

(...y'hear that, Al?)

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Marrakai]
      #93736 - 07/01/08 02:08 PM

Rigby--Yes that bore of rifled barrel can be put on, as well
as a .729 rifled or any smooth barrel. I put on a smooth
just because it was first to get here, and I tested loads with
it. Hell action would handle 20ga, 16ga, even 10ga.

Marrakai--Yes if you find Savage thay are the ones. You
can put any NE case or shotgun case up to 10ga.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #93980 - 10/01/08 11:37 AM

Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel


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smicha6551
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Reged: 09/08/05
Posts: 88
Loc: NYC & Kuwait
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #94056 - 11/01/08 06:46 PM

On the first page a Borchardt falling block for .50 BMG is mentioned - does anyone know if it is still in production? I can't find any info on it.

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: smicha6551]
      #94172 - 13/01/08 10:50 AM

Borchardt's # I have 505-535-2923 ..

28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1290
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #94176 - 13/01/08 04:25 PM

Hi Ed, Did you get my PM & email about shells and some slugs ??

Thanks

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19310
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #94196 - 14/01/08 05:41 AM

Quote:

Borchardt's # I have 505-535-2923 ..

28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed





;
: Please advise the exact groove diameter of the 28 bore, please. For me, this thread is again attracting my attention. The 28 sounds worth making up for playing around here. A .54/170?/3-1/4 - cool! 170 was just a guess.
; First measurement on a Ruger #1 Action showed rims to around .60" only would be allowed without some grinding.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Daryl_S]
      #94215 - 14/01/08 10:28 AM

Sarg- I got email and sent a reply.The Proparms cases I
want to find is just to pass them on to others with
primer pocket bushing put in. Just going to charge for bushing.
That way others can do the 12GA FH long case.

Daryl-- 28ga groove diameter is .550", same as our 550 Magnum that
I tested in same gun. COTW also says 28ga normal bore .550",
there are co making 550 barrels ans bullets now.
28ga rim is .680". Should be no problem putting it in Ruger as they do
500NE in Rugers with .660' rim and some 577 with bigger rims.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #94705 - 19/01/08 02:32 PM

Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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Daryl_S
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #94731 - 19/01/08 11:52 PM

tks.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Daryl_S]
      #95298 - 28/01/08 03:34 AM

I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action. Ed




--------------------
Ed Hubel


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #95322 - 28/01/08 10:53 AM

Ed,

While I read all of your posts because the idea of powerful rifles fascinates me (though I am not happy with recoil and prefer to shoot my very pedestrian 8mm and 30-06 instead) I rarely post because I don't know as much about ballistics as most members do. I have only recently begun to work on handloading and have ordered equipment with the advice of members here, for example.

My question to you is, do you think that your 12 GAFH could be made into a double rifle? At the kinds of enormous power levels that you have worked out from it, if this were possible, you just might have the most powerful double rifle round around. Just speculating here - if this is a stupid question, my apologies are ready in advance.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #95384 - 29/01/08 05:34 AM

ed

you keep talking about heavy barrels, could you be more specific if it is possible as to wall thickness both chamberwall and barrel wall, your tread is very inspiring and im getting a sxs home soon that is very overbuildt as a 12 gauge, and im thinking about following in your footpath.

thanks

peter


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: peter]
      #95398 - 29/01/08 09:27 AM

Yes you can build a heavy barreled double, with barrels
as heavy as used on the NEF Ultra Slug gun.
The diameter needed for our slower powder 12ga loads, is
1.20" at the breech and 1.050" at muzzle. I have a
Zabala 10ga double that if I get time and money I want to
build a heavy barreled 12 ga bore gun. Like a 700NE only
our cases is longer and .029" more bore. But getting one
done is really expensive.And even 12ga doubles that are
premium, I haven't seen any with heavy enough muzzles.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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peter
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #95405 - 29/01/08 11:02 AM

thanks for the quick reply ed.

i got a toy gun from holts auction, in 12 gauge with an action that was so overbuildt that it looks like a 12 with 20 tubes. so i wanted to monoblock it anyways but then i saw your tread again and got a bit hot under the collar, i will do the mesaurments when it comes home and see about barrels etc it looks so fun i think dieter horneber could do a few cases as well, allthough i dont think i will do a full 3.87" a nice 3" would do nicely .
something like a paradox on steroids.

best regards

peter


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1290
Loc: New Zealand Australia South A...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: peter]
      #95443 - 29/01/08 08:57 PM

Peter

I would be keen on some 3in brass shells if you are getting some made ,let me know on them !
Have a look at my 12 Bore rifle under "J&W Tolly 12 Bore Rifles Photos" post ,looks a bit like steroid uses

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Sarg]
      #95557 - 31/01/08 04:21 AM

hi sarge

as soon as i get a price i will let you know, and yes i love your rifle. talk about 12 gauge on steriods wauw. i bet it will fun to shoot when you get the loads right

ed could you recommend a load with as low pressure as possible what im looking for is:

750 grn. fosbury style projectile.

3 " brass case.

around 2100-2200 fps

hopefully under the 3000 bar limit

im trying to see if my friend and his cnc lathe could do some steel tips that i could try to cast into the fosbury form, so i could get fosbury hollow points and steel inserts as solids for some fun hunting and tests.


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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 623
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: peter]
      #96114 - 06/02/08 04:02 PM

You can get heavy base turned cases from MRC in any length.
For a 750 gr that fast you have too high pressure for double.
Using 3.5 inch plastic I got a 600gr to over 2000 in heavy barrel
NEF, and cases stick and won't extract when I went higher.
You can probably get to 1800 depending on extraction, with 750gr.
If you can find drawn cases without balloon heads that is best.
Personally after all research and getting cases around, if
I do a gun without going the full 3.85" length, I will do them
in 3.5" plastic, it is just so much easier and saves money,
and 3.5 inch plastic wil lkeep up with 3" brass. Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel


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