Robie
.275 member
Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61
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Just wonder which .416 one should choose today, Remington, Rigby or Taylor?
I feel Remington to powerfull and Taylor somewhat slow. Then again Rigby kind of long.
Robie 
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Gibbs505
.333 member
Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
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You forgot about the WEATHERBY 416 which is more powerful then any other 416. All of the three you mentioned are very similar in power and the rigby is proberly the easiest to shoot as it has the largest case!
Grab whichever one is the most comfortable for you and enjoy! 
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So I can't spell, so what?
Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!
Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40658
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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Robie
(Talking completely from an armchair)
I would choose a 416 Chatfield-Taylor if I wanted a (semi-)wildcat in a standard length action. Maybe a lighter rifle for carrying rather than shooting, as Orion would say.
If I wanted the same in a factory rifle where I could buy ammunition or reloading supplies (eg cases) easier then I would go for the 416 Remington. Personally I wouldn't unless I had no other choices.
The 416 Rigby is a true classic and that's what I would go for. It will be a magnum action, but factory rifles, ammunition and reloading components are accessible.
Then again I would be in a quandary and have to choose between the Rigby and a .404 Jeffrey also a standard action cartridge and also a classic. 
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John aka NitroX
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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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Robie
.275 member
Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61
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NitroX
I have been told that the good old .404 Jeffery is slow with a poor SD, making it no good for buff and elephant. The bullets doesn't penetrate and there is no "punch".
The new .425 Express is supposed to be better, but brass is no-excisting.
Have you any experience with the .404 Jeffery?
Robie
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Honey_badger
.275 member
Reged: 03/01/03
Posts: 50
Loc: UK
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Also comfortably from my armchair:
I would go for Rigby - such a classic.
As for .404, most British colonial game department issued their control staffs with .404s and they must have accounted for thousands of eles & buff. How much velocity do you want? Sectional density - I have read that the .404s suffered from poor bullets in its early days, but that was many decades ago. Any modern bullets ahould be up to scratch.
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mickey
.416 member
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
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In reply to:
NitroX
I have been told that the good old .404 Jeffery is slow with a poor SD, making it no good for buff and elephant. The bullets doesn't penetrate and there is no "punch".
The new .425 Express is supposed to be better, but brass is no-excisting.
Have you any experience with the .404 Jeffery?
Robie
Robie, whoever told you that shouldn't even be asked for an opinion as it is so ridiculous. The 404 has shot 1000 elephants to every 1 for the Rigby and 5,000 buffalo for every 1 also.
The 400 grain bullet at 23-2500 is every bit the Rigby and with a larger diameter bullet to boot.
A lighter and handier rifle, less recoil, and easy to find components. While you can buy Rigby ammunition can you afford it at US150/box? Get the 404J and get the rifle Rigby tried to imitate but couldn't. 
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Lovu Zdar
Mick
A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40658
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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Robie
I had the loan of a M81 African Parker Hale in .4040 for a couple of years in the mid-80's from a friend who went overseas. He left it with me and I could use his ammo as long as I paid for whatever I used. He had some handloaded ammo and some RWS ammo I believe.
I had a standing offer to buy it if I wanted but being a poor student at the time gave it back when I went overseas to work for a while.
STUPID STUPID STUPID
Only used it on goats and donkeys but it seemed to kill OK . Unfortunately don't know about its effect on buffalo and elephant.
I can't remember reading about its "lack of penetration" etc. Remember reading this about the 10.75x68mm which is of the same bore (.423) and used a lighter 347 gr FMJ which had a more fragile jacket than the 400 gr FMJ.
As Mickey would knowand says it should be a very effective medium bore (big bore) rifle.
One thing always strikes me as inconsistent. Some people praise the .400 calibre (usually .408 & .411) Nitro Express doubles as being very effective and more so than any .375. Yet the same people rubbish rounds such as the .416 Chatfield-Taylor as being too slow and ineffective. Yet they have almost the same velocity with a 400 gr bullet and only a negilible calibre difference. I would think any of these rounds which could generate 2200 fps to 2400 fps with a 400 grainer would be very effective.
A question for super-velocity big bore nuts - what big game bullets are designed for velocities over 2400 fps ?
Go for the one that you like the thought of the best. I wouldn't mind carrying any of them (except the Weatherby).
PS Anyone got a nice really cheaply priced good condition M81 African Parker Hale in .404J for sale? 
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John aka NitroX
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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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Les
.224 member
Reged: 04/05/03
Posts: 33
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There is only one 416 and that is the Rigby, Nitrox I liked your first post mate, what are you trying to say mate hahaha. just say it - Rigby - ....Les ..cheers
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JBoutfishn
.224 member
Reged: 13/09/03
Posts: 11
Loc: Redding Ca.
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I have a M70 416 Rem Mag, it has served me well.... However, If I were to do it again, the Rigby would get the nod. Just because 
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Jim
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470Nitro
.333 member
Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain
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I'm still using every year my Remington .416 RM with excellents results. I choose it 'cos..... I don't really know why but it works really fine. 
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down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute
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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member
Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
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I'm somewhat of a tradionalist when it comes to my first choice of a rifle. For example: I have a 375 H&H in a Whitworth Express with a beautiful wood stock that I just love. However, I also have a 375 Ackley Improved that started out as a Winchester Mod.70 Classic Stainless with a fiberglass stock. For beauty, originality, and the classic look, I reach for the Whitworth. Now as far as the 416 is concerned, I don't think much thought has to be given to the subject. The hands down choice is the 416 Rigby in your choice of bolt action. I chose the Ruger 77, and just love it. It balances well, has enough weight that it doesn't hammer your shoulder badly, has a well designed stock that doesn't punish your cheek or knuckles of your trigger hand, and just plain shoots well. Besides, who could argue with the Rigby tradition. It's as old as the 375 H&H, and still going strong.
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luv2safari
.400 member
Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
Loc: United States
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I have Rigby in the Ruger RSM and like the gun very much. I had one in a CZ550...it was the more accurate of the two in my hands.
I am a fan of low pressures being generated only inches from my face, and a fan of old and classic calibers, so the Rigby, a 404, 375...are all my front line choices, but just for that reason. If you run on to one of those Whitworth Express in 375...grab it in a flash! I had one and sold it for what I thought was way too much, but now have to pay way way too much to replace it. They feel and shoot great. 
I've had a 416 Rem in a new Winchester safair classic, and can't fault the round, just the gun. The Rem boils up a bit more pressure than I like, however, but modern guns don't seem to mind.
With Speer's inexpensive ($14.00/box of 50 if you shop) 350 gr bullet, the Rigby becomes a decent plains game round. I use it for shooting 'yotes out my bedroom window... 
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Hunt with Class and Classics
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atkinson6
.375 member
Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
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I shoot both the 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys and actually prefer the 404 to any other bolt action caliber..With a 400 gr. Bridger FN solid at 2600 FPS why would it not be a dangerous game rifle...It has worked for me on a lot of Buffalo....
I prefer the 416 Rem over the Rigby because it makes up into a smaller package with a smaller, lighter action..as does the 404 Jefferys...That big 416 Rigby action should house a 500 Jefferys, 505 Gibbs or something on that order IMO....
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Bigfive
Sponsor
Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Freestate,South-Africa
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416 Rigby was and is still proved to be one of your best big game calibers for the african continent.Excellent choice.I don't think the other 416's can stand their own against Rigby if you look at history.
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"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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History will play a small part in the selection. It's what floats your boat at the moment. I love Rugers and since the Rigby is the only 416 chambered, I got one. The only problem with the Rigby is cost. I get all my ammo at cost and it's still expensive to shoot. Rigby brass is expensive also. I let a few guys shoot it and because they're used to slightly shorter actions, it's always being short-stroked. It's just another skill that has to be mastered on the range before I run with it.
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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ThomasEdwards
.300 member
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
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...just wondering whether the .416 rem. mag. has actually caused trouble pressure-wise during a dg hunt in 35c+ weather?...
...imho, rem was merely trying to save costs by using an existing action platform when it came out with the .416 a decade or so ago...could be wrong on this tho...
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luv2safari
.400 member
Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
Loc: United States
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I sure wouldn't want to be the first hunter to get his tit in the ringer using the Rem in hot weather and having extraction problems.
I do wonder if anything like this has happened with the 416 Remington. Anyone know of a documented case of a stuck case??...curious...
I think Ray made a good point about smaller and more compact rifles, but still like lower pressures. It is a hard decision with no definitive answer.
You can keep the Weatherbys. I have an early 300 Wby German that I bought new as a young guy. I've tried everything I know how to make it shoot decent groups...all I get are open patterns...about IC... 
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Hunt with Class and Classics
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475Guy
.400 member
Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
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There was something about the much older of 416 Rem ammo that was used in the beginning. Alf on AR posted that when there was an embargo a while ago, the older ammo did seem to be overpressured. He also said that the sitting in the sun and bouncing in the back of bakke didn't help either.
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Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.
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atkinson6
.375 member
Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
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Well the pressure thing with the .416 Rem. was the brain child of an article in African hunter, and it is BS and has no basis or fact...
The 416 operates at the same pressure level as the 30-06, 270, 308.243,280, 7 mag, 300 Mags, and a host of others, and I defy anyone to dispute this statement..so lets give up all the other calibers along with the 416 Rem, I think not....
If one has pressure problems with a 416 Rem then I suggest that he put too much powder in the damn thing or didn't trim his cases or any of the other dumb things that some reloaders do, regardless of the caliber...
As to the famed African heat, ask anyone from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona how it bothered them...I will take Africa at its worst compared to presidio, Texas or yuma, Ariz..Hmmm, I have hunted there also...
Nope, thats a lame arguement, long live the 416 Rem..but the Rigby is a fine old round, proven over the years and has always been underloaded, but to load it hotter is falacy and not needed, but lets keep our arguement for her in perspective, she needs no justification at the expense of another caliber, in fact she can stand alone on her own two feet, as can the 416 Rem......
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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I would choose the 416 Remington Magnum, more than anything by budget, the 416 Rigby is more expensive. In my country the rest (Taylor, Hoffman) are not easy to acquire caliber. Besides the 416 Magnum Remignton plays the ballistics of Rigby, who has always been enough to bring down the entire fauna of this world.
Oscar.
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I am Spanish
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Der_Jaeger
.375 member
Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
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The .416 Weatherby is my choice. Todays bullets easily handle the higher velocity generated by this cartridge. Actually, 2700 fps isn't even high velocity in today's world, come to think of it. Take your pick: Barnes, A-Frames, Bearclaws, Partitions, etc.... These all work at velocities above 3400 fps.
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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If, in agreement with you, but what we must endure setback?, I think that is fired more accurately with just under setback and I believe the 416 Remington Magnum can resolve any situation perfectly game.
Oscar.
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I am Spanish
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DGR375
.300 member
Reged: 04/10/07
Posts: 131
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD
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Sometimes forgotten in this debate is the role played by cordite. It was very sensitive to heat, hence the emphasis on low pressures. Modern powders are far less sensitive to heat, hence the success of all those "high" pressure cartridges such as the 30/06 amd the 300 Magnum.
The famed African heat, too, is famous, simply because it was compared to the English climate, where the cordite loaded ammunition was manufactured. Here in Australia there are lots of places where the climate is a hot as those places in Africa under discussion. No pressure problems here, at least with modern powders.
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Caprivi
.375 member
Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
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The only one I have not had the pleasure (????) of using is the Weatherby. So, if I thought I needed a 416 it would be that. I would have the potential of high velocity and also a huge case (as well the Rigby) to load 400's to 2400 for that seemingly all important low pressure.
Besides I really like Weatherby's.
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To live life as it is handed to me from God
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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In another thread and I suggest the 416-caliber Weatherby, so I do not know is how much ammunition, and you know that my limit is the largest budget. I also know that his reversal is fairly accused maybe greater than that of the 458 Lott?, I believe that by the speed of its projectiles, the answer is yes.
Oscar.
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I am Spanish
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