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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Clam Shell Action
      #41274 - 11/11/05 06:28 PM

Would like information on DR's built with a "Clam Shell Action". I saw one for sale the other day and have never seen one before. The caliber was 470 NE. Can anyone tell me about this type of action?

What are the strong/weak points of this type of action?

Have many DR's have been built with this type of action?

What time period was this action built?

Basically, I would like to know everything I can find out about this type of action?





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Mauser Rifle

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500Nitro
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41276 - 11/11/05 06:43 PM


MauserRifle

Can you post a picture or the web site if it was on one
so we can look at it.

I think I know what you are talking about but want to
see pics first.

By the way, very good question.

500 Nitro

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41277 - 11/11/05 07:02 PM

500Nitro

The web address is from GunsAmerica

www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976613098.htm

I have a close up photo of the action that I can e-mail you as I do not know how to post photos on this site!




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Mauser Rifle

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41281 - 11/11/05 07:30 PM

Here is a picture of the rifle with the clamshell action. I wish there was a better angle .





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: mickey]
      #41282 - 11/11/05 07:36 PM

mickey

Thank You kindly for posting the picture.



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Mauser Rifle

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500Nitro
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41283 - 11/11/05 07:40 PM

Thanks mickey

MauserRifle,

I can't access GA at the moment but
that's what I thought you were talking about.

I nearly bought a DR (in I think 600 Nitro)
on hat action so will look back at my research
and do another post if the same action.

WHAT Calibre is the gun on Guns America ?

I think (and I say thinksodon't quote me yet)
the action is German but will have to check)

500 Nitro

Edited by 500Nitro (11/11/05 07:42 PM)

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41284 - 11/11/05 07:50 PM

500Nitro

It is a 470NE.



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Mauser Rifle

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sbs470
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Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41291 - 12/11/05 12:46 AM

Mauser rifle
I have such a rifle in 500 x 3.25" nitro for black. It is labeled Gustav Geschow ,with Krupp fluid steel barrels Henry rifling it has a Greener cross bolt and set triggers and according to Deitrich Apel it was made by Griefelt. on the flats it is marked 2/27 ,i.e feb 1927
I shoot it with a nitro load and achiece 1935-1950 fps and good accuracy. It is the first double I bought and I love shooting it .I cannot make it shoot blackpowder and lead.It has been a love hate relationship for quite a while .my wife calls it the alchemist and the antichrist neither one giving an inch but it does shoot light nitro 440 gr woodlieghs really well.
this rifle is currently for sale.
kind regards
sbs470

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Peterb
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Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: sbs470]
      #41308 - 12/11/05 04:03 AM

The "clam shell" action is not an action, but simply an addition of metal to strengthen the existing action. Fairly common in Germanic guns.

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: sbs470]
      #41325 - 12/11/05 06:56 AM

sbs470

From what I am reading, it appears that these type of actions were made mostly in Germany. I wonder if anyone has a time table reference as to how long this type of action was used and why they are not seen very often.

Would all the surrounding metal around the barrels of been an overkill so to speak as to safety?

It would appear with the extra metal, that the barrels would have to be longer in order to achieve a balanced rifle!

It would also appear that the rifle would "stay on face better" with the extra metal surrounding the barrels?

These are only assumptions on my part.



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Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41354 - 12/11/05 01:21 PM

There was a detailed article on these in the DGJ many years ago. Perhaps someone here with the full set can post the reference?

I only have a poor b/w photocopy filed away somewhere...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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MauserRifle
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: Marrakai]
      #41356 - 12/11/05 01:53 PM

Marrakai

I appreciate that information. Hopefully someone here will have a copy of that article and enlighten all of us concerning this type of action.

IMO, the above rifle is quite unique in appearence and it seems that not many of us know much about this design!


--------------------
Mauser Rifle

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41368 - 12/11/05 03:53 PM

I have seen quite a few of them, never owned one, never had the chance to handle one that was actually for sale either for that matter.

All you have there is more metal around the fences and action flats.
I like the looks of the design, and really based on that alone I'd grab one if the chance came around to get one in a chambering that would work out for me.

One of those in 9.3x74R would be great!!

Puglisi has a drilling in that style of action currently.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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500Nitro
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41467 - 14/11/05 05:18 AM


MauserRifle

Found the info on the gun I nearly bought.
I have emailed 2 Pictures to Mickey to post
on this forum.

It was a 600 (3in) Nitro Express double barrelled
Boxlock Ejector Rifle by ROBERT SCHULER of Coln.

Had 26 1/2" Barrels, KRuPP Steel chopperlump barrels
with Matt sight rib.

Scroll Back Treble Grip action with Heavy side bolsters,
carved fences, manual safety, Articulated front trigger,
fine border and scroll engraving and retaining
very slight traces of case colour hardening.

Interestingly, it had a Sculptured fore end with DEELEY and EDGE
patent release.

Weight was 13lbs 11oz.

No comment made about the prood marks.

So the few we know about are
out of Germany.

I like the action and would have loved to have owned the gun
but it wasn't to be.

500 Nitro

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41469 - 14/11/05 05:58 AM

I am posting this for 500Nitro. Does anyone have a view down the rifle to show how much the swell from the clamshell is?





--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: mickey]
      #41481 - 14/11/05 07:37 AM

Clamshell (Muzzelverschluss) action rifles are only of German origin, so far as I know. Of course, having said that there will be ten to come forward from other countries to prove me wrong!

The Double Gun Journal article is found in Volume 8, Issue 3 (Autumn 1997).

Here are three views of my clamshell in 9.3x74R. These views will answer Mickey's question about how much the reinforcing web protrudes.

Regards,
Curl










--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Edited by CptCurl (14/11/05 07:42 AM)

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mickey
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: CptCurl]
      #41483 - 14/11/05 07:47 AM

Nice pictures and a nice rifle. Do you use it at all?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: mickey]
      #41486 - 14/11/05 08:14 AM

Mick,

Heck yeah I use it.

I guess you don't remember, but this is the rifle I had a new Leupold 1.5-5 mounted in the existing claw bases. You and I PM'ed back and forth about it earlier this year.

Here's a rather shitty pic of the rifle with it's new and fully modern Leupold optics. (Of course the original scope is still with the rifle too. I can now just pop either scope on!)

Regards,
Curl



--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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tinker
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: CptCurl]
      #41487 - 14/11/05 08:18 AM

What a sweet rifle!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mickey
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: CptCurl]
      #41490 - 14/11/05 08:56 AM

CptCurl

Yes I do remember now. I didn't connect it until you showed me the last picture.

I'm glad the mounts worked out so well.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: mickey]
      #41491 - 14/11/05 09:15 AM

mickey

Thank You for posting the pictures of the Clam Shell Action for Nitro500 and allowing all of us to see the detail of the action.


Nitro500

Why did you end up not purchasing that rifle?



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: CptCurl]
      #41492 - 14/11/05 09:24 AM

CptCurl

That is one fine looking rifle as I am sure everyone will attest too.

I appreciate the information as to where we can read up about this action in the "Double Gun Jornal". I will try and locate a copy of that article!

Can you give us more information as to the strengths/weakness of this type of action from yor peersonal use of the rifle? (advantages/disadvantages)



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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500Nitro
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41493 - 14/11/05 09:41 AM

MauserRifle

"Why did you end up not purchasing that rifle? "

It was in an auction 3 years ago and I put upper limits
on where I will bid to for a gun and I went to that
but Someone wantd it more than me - I have since
found out that we have had bidding duals on a couple
of guns of which he wins some and I win others
- and of course we both lose occasionaly !!!

And my limits are not "bottom feeder" bids or
ones where you only buy if it's a bargain which
generally do not get you anywhere or you only
end up with "less than" good stuff / guns that need
work done to them.

500 Nitro

Edited by 500Nitro (14/11/05 09:45 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: MauserRifle]
      #41572 - 15/11/05 02:08 PM

MauserRifle,

The purpose of the "clamshell" design is strength, just as H&H (and others) put "bolsters" on the sides of their actions. Think of this reinforcing web as a super bolster.

There is more stress on the action concentrated in the 90 degree angle were the standing breech meets the bars than anywhere else. This is a way to relieve or spread that stress, like a gusset in structural steel.

I can think of no disadvantage to this system, other than the high cost of machining the complex shape.

To my knowledge, and as stated in the DGJ article I previously mentioned, no rifles are known to have been made on this design since the outbreak of WW2, and probably considerably earlier.

To give you a better idea of how the action is milled, I just shot this photo of the action face with the barrels off:



Regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
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Re: Clam Shell Action [Re: CptCurl]
      #41593 - 15/11/05 05:06 PM

CptCurl

Thank You for taking the time to post the additional information and the photo. This is very helpful not only to me, but I sure everyone else as there dosn't seem to be many of these actions around.

I can see how the action is strenghtened with all the extra metal surrounding the barrels and I would assume the extra metal would help with "staying on face"?

When the action is opened after firing, is there any hinderence in removing the fired cases or in reloading?



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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