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pillshooter
.224 member

Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 22
Loc: Sherwood, Oregon USA

Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly?
#40995 - 08/11/05 04:30 PM

I am looking to get a new big bore in either 416 or 458. Does anyone have any first hand experience with the newer CF winchester safari rifles. I read a post about a winchester in 416 rem that a guy had a lot of problems with. I have a ruger 375 H&H mag which is real nice but $500 more than the winchester. Any Comments? As far as the CZ I don't like the stock fit on me so it is between the winchester or the ruger for now.

Thanks

Pill Shooter

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly? [Re: pillshooter]
#40999 - 08/11/05 04:55 PM

Re posts of bad experiences, I think you could find
a couple for every gun make in the world as you will
always get one or 2 bad.

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RLI
.375 member

Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly? [Re: pillshooter]
#41015 - 08/11/05 06:25 PM

I have a Winchester 70 "Classic Safari Express" Left Hand in .375H&H and it is a very reliable rifle only "flaw" is it is a bit "clubby " when compared to a original Pre64 M70 but then again it is a modern design and the sight should be replaced with a good express sights and the price is good.

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: pillshooter]
#41088 - 09/11/05 03:35 PM

I have a Safari Express in 458 Win and I love it. For the price it can't be beat. I haven't had it out on a hunt yet but I am sure it will soon find itself in Africa. So far my only complaint is that the fit and finish isn't as good as it could be but I got it for less the 1000 which is pretty good. My dad has the same rifle in 375 H&H and he really likes it. I was trying to get the custom shop version but they were not being made until leter next year.

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: bulldog563]
#41115 - 10/11/05 04:08 AM

I have owned three (3) Win M70 Classic SS .375 H&H. Here's the deal:

FIRST ONE:

1. The first one popped the cartridges out of the magazine when the bolt was pulled back hard. I sent it to Win and they fixed it.
2. Accuracy was crap until it was glass bedded. Then it was an inch an a quarter, except with Bridger solids which printer clover leafs.

SECOND ONE:

1. Would not feed out of the box. Case mouth hit edge of chamber.
2. Had it totally reworked. Got it to feed right.
3. Put Williams bottom metal on it.
4. Got rid of the flimsy factory sights in favor of NECG.
5. Lopped barrel off at 21".
6. Put a Pachmyr pad on it.
7. Loaned it to someone who shot an ele and leopard with it.

THIRD ONE:

1. Remains new in the box.
2. It is such a hassle to get a M70 working right, and it costs about $800 in parts and gunsmithing, that I am not going to mess with it.

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Ratel74
.275 member

Reged: 03/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: USA

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: 500grains]
#41117 - 10/11/05 04:28 AM

Here is what I have found on most M70 safaris

1. The new ones have fragile iron sights, that the comb of the stock is too high to take advantage of
2. Depending ont the moment the gun is made it could use different rear mounts to the scopes
3. Crowns range from OK to scary
4. They all need to be bedded
5. Most need some sort of feeding work
6. Stocks are too chunky
7. Triggers are horrid

After you sort out all those problems most will shoot in the 1 to 2" range at 100 yds. Most of the ones I have shot all shoot about an 1" for 3 shots a 100 yds. You pretty much need to do about the same with CZ's too

Aleko

Edited by Ratel74 (10/11/05 04:30 AM)

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: 500grains]
#42129 - 22/11/05 10:15 AM

I have a model 70 safari express and don't like the sights it comes with from the factory. Could anyone suggest any options if I wanted to get now express sights. It is a model 70 safari express in 458 win mag.

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: 500grains]
#42130 - 22/11/05 10:22 AM

I also have plans to have it glass bedded and have a trigger job done on it. 500grains, what do you mean by "Put Williams bottom metal on it." Any other suggestions you guys could offer on possibly improving this rifle would be appreciated as it will be proving itself on an ele this summer and I would like to have as many kinks as possible ironed out before then.

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: bulldog563]
#42131 - 22/11/05 10:29 AM

The adjustable "express sight" that came on my M70 stainless was the adjustable version of the sight sold by New England Custom Guns. NECG also sold and probably still sells a proper replacement single standing leaf express sight that screwed directly in place of the factory sight. You will have to sight in the NECG replacement sight with a file.

Also somebody in Washington state used to make a copy of a pre '64 Winchester M70 African rear sight which was a screw adjustable express sight.

Richard

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Taos
.300 member

Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: rgp]
#42133 - 22/11/05 10:49 AM

I had one for for shooting crippled elk for a couplr of years in .416. It worked very well for that purpose. I had no problems at all with it. you may want to ask luv2safari on this board as he had quite a bad time with several of them on a buff hunt.

I would buy another given a decent chance. I really liked that rifle.

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Charles_Helm
.333 member

Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: rgp]
#42145 - 22/11/05 01:13 PM

In reply to:

Also somebody in Washington state used to make a copy of a pre '64 Winchester M70 African rear sight which was a screw adjustable express sight.

Jim Wisner makes these, although his last run is sold out. I think he is making some more this spring. If you spread the word about them how am I going to get another one?

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

Edited by Charles_Helm (22/11/05 01:14 PM)

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: Charles_Helm]
#42159 - 22/11/05 04:46 PM

Charles,

Thank you, the reason I said "somebody" is making them is because I couldn't remember the name.

Come to think of it I shouldn't spread the word about them because I want to buy a few of them myself...

Richard

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nopride2
.300 member

Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly? [Re: pillshooter]
#42295 - 24/11/05 02:47 PM

After my experiences with these rifles, I wouldn't have one if it came for free.

Dave

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: nopride2]
#42309 - 24/11/05 08:15 PM

What are your bad experiences?

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GreenjoyTJ
.224 member

Reged: 04/05/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Pickering, Ontario, Canada

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly? [Re: pillshooter]
#42332 - 25/11/05 10:24 AM

When you figure that the Win M70 is made almost entirely on CMC machines the chance of getting a slightly flawed one is 100% and a bad one much less.

But it's the severity or quantity of flaws that matters, and most flaws like the ones mentioned in the following posts. Theses problems are correctable and will probably be fixed under warranty, it will just take time.... much, much time so be patient.
But in the end you will has a reworked rifle that works like it's supposed.

Even if you had to pay for the repair your self to get is do quickly it will still be
thousands less than ordering a M70 from the Winchester custom shop and be a lot faster.
My M70 is in the shop right now. It was the first M70 I have ever owned.
I didn't notice that the anti bind slot on the bolt locking lugs was broken off.
A new bolt is going to be fitted.

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nopride2
.300 member

Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: bulldog563]
#42457 - 28/11/05 01:52 PM

Usually feeding problems, a couple were beyond repair. Add a bunch of other repairs and upgrades they are not worth it to me.

Dave

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luv2safari
.400 member

Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: Taos]
#42692 - 01/12/05 03:32 PM

Tried three...none would feed from a full magazine; one had barrel not square with the receiver; all had bedding problems. They don't even make for a decent club! These were two in 416 Rem and one in 375. The 375 was the worst of all, and the factory realized it by buying it back for my cost plus sales tax and my shipping expenses. The three bad ones were blue/walnut.

My Mdl 70 in SS/Synthetic 375 was a very good rifle, however. I sold it to raise $$$ for a safari and regret doing so.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Ratel74
.275 member

Reged: 03/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: USA

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: luv2safari]
#43146 - 05/12/05 04:00 PM

I have had several Winchesters and CZ's I was so sick of gunsmithing fixes, it is what propelled me to buy a Blaser. Like them or not it worked out of the box. I have used a SAKO 75 in .375 quite a bit too and it worked out of the box too.

Aleko

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Snowwolfe
.224 member

Reged: 11/12/05
Posts: 27
Loc: Eagle River, Alaska

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: Ratel74]
#44008 - 15/12/05 05:38 AM

Interesting. After readin all these comments I decided to look at my newly purchased LH 375 Safari model a little closer. I removed the firing pin from the bolt and tried to cycle 3 out of the magazine. It feed flawlessly (300 gr Old style Noslers). I then put 3 down and chambered one. It still fed the next three like butter. I removed the action from the stock and was pleasantly surprised to see an extra recoil lug on the barrel. Both recoil lugs were bedded in what appears to be either glass or hot glue. The fit and finish was a cut above normal for a factory rifle. Best $$$ I ever spent.

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luv2safari
.400 member

Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: Snowwolfe]
#44010 - 15/12/05 06:27 AM

I am glad to hear that, as I like the rifle in concept. The earlier ones were a problem for the consumer and USRA. If they have solved their problems, I'd be all for trying one again.

Of the two SS versions in 375 I used, both worked flawlessly. I wish I hadn't sold mine.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: luv2safari]
#44031 - 15/12/05 09:37 AM

I also have two Model 70 Safari Express's. One 458 Win and one 375 H&H. The 458 hasn't been out on a hunt but the 375 performed quite well.

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kino
.224 member

Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Utah USA

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: bulldog563]
#44111 - 16/12/05 01:11 PM

Bulldog, the one Williams bottom metal is a one piece unit. I did the same to mine. I also had it bedded to an HS Precision stock. I believe the Safari classic comes with a one piece floorplate.

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: kino]
#44130 - 16/12/05 03:40 PM

When you say its a one peice unit do you mean that the bottom doesn't open...ie no latch?

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kino
.224 member

Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Utah USA

Re: Win Model 70 Safari Express Good, Bad, or Ugly [Re: bulldog563]
#44248 - 17/12/05 02:26 PM

Here is a link to the company. The floorplate opens, but it has a frame, (Winchester calls it a picture frame). The trigger guard up to the hinged portion of the floorplate is all one piece. This eliminates the two sperate pieces, the trigger guard and hinge with floorplate attached on current mod. 70's
Williams firearms

Edited by kino (17/12/05 02:28 PM)

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