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NitroXAdministrator
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Blacker than Black Death
      #3946 - 30/07/03 11:44 PM

Have a look at this brute.

An Indian Gaur, the largest wild oxen on Earth. Larger than the Cape Buffalo and arguably more dangerous.


Image from www.ultimateungulates.com



"Blue Mountain Bulls" - Gaur hunting article here on NitroExpress.com in the Nickudu Files

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (16/09/10 04:09 AM)

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SafariHunt
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3954 - 31/07/03 05:25 PM

First Time I have seen one of those but must say not so imppresive than those Cape buff horns ! How musch heavier is it than the avg. 2000 pound buff ?

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Mpofu
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: SafariHunt]
      #3955 - 31/07/03 09:45 PM

Frederick,
They can stand up to 8 feet at the shoulder, have a reputation of unprovoked attacks when in 'musth', and can weigh about 1000 lbs more than a Cape Buff. However, normally they are shy quiet animals, and take off at the slightest hint of danger.
M.
PS England currently stand at 77 for 5 in the 2nd test against RSA. I reckon your players need to be drug tested, apart from the fact that they keep intimidating the umpires into giving our guys out, even though they quite clearly are not !!
Long live MR COOK and his exposure of canned hunts in RSA !!!!!!!!!!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: SafariHunt]
      #3961 - 01/08/03 02:06 AM

Frederik

That aint not kaffir bull (or whatever they are called in PC language).

While it does have some resemblance to a domestic bull in broad features, have a look at the bone and muscle structure. Now look into its eyes. Imagine yourself in the moist, dark jungles of India and you walk into a small clearing and this monster is staring at you at fifteen yards range. And all you have is a pipsqueak .375 (or .450 for that matter).



Mpofu


Even though these gaur or seladang are related to Banteng they definitely seem to be larger and more powerfully built. And from reports of those who have hunted them in the Top End (out of the price range of Aussie hunters) they are very agile and elusive. Similar to the Northern Sambar deer of the same forests. Which goes well with your comments of the elusive Gaur.

I want to try to find the passage from a book - Baker ??? - who described a Gaur attack on a hunter in I think it was Burma. How the gaur tossed the hunter many times, left and came back again and again. While the others watched from the trees where they had taken shelter. The gaur had been wounded but not disabled.

I read this passage from a book I borrowed from the Kensington and ? Library in London when I lived there and read up on all things African prior to my first visit. The book dealt a lot with India, but I think it was in the same section so read it out of interest.

Do you - or anyone - know which book this might be ?

I would like to post the passage from the book on the forums or ezine.

By the way, the Jeffrey double does not have water buffalo engraved on it but Gaur. I searched the web for photos of Gaur to compare them to the engraving and believe they are more Gaurish than Buff. Will try to post a couple of photos of the engraving for others opinions but hard to get the rather shallow engraving to show up well.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3962 - 01/08/03 02:09 AM

PS Frederik - I would give a record class cape buffalo anyday for a good gaur trophy today. Sadly not very likely.



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John aka NitroX

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coues
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3965 - 01/08/03 02:47 AM

A great hulking freight train of a beast. Cool pic.
Coues

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Mpofu
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3968 - 01/08/03 06:06 PM

NitroX,

In 1956, a gent named Harry Burroughs,and a friend were hunting in the forests of Madhya Pradesh,Central India, when he came across a Gaur Bull. His mate was in an adjoining area within the same shooting block.
Harry it appeared, took a chance with his 30 06 and went for a brain shot. The animal dropped, stunned, and Harry ran up to it. On being approached, the animal got up and charged. The 'Shikari' took off. He heard another shot go off, but still kept running in the opposite direction.
When they got to the scene, the Bull was sitting on the ground, very much alive. Harry had managed to put another shot into it's head.The animal was despatched with comparative ease. One of the bullets had grased the bottom of the brain.
Harry's mangled remains were recovered from under the great beast. The animal had gored Harry, literally mashed him up, and had then used it's chest to mangle him into the earth. Harry was taken home in a pillow case, the only recognizable item recovered, was his signet ring.
This is a factual account of what happened..... I know the other hunter very well.
Mpofu.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: Mpofu]
      #3977 - 02/08/03 10:48 PM

The female of the species.

Is the female of the gaur species more deadly than the male?



This one looks like a girl I once knew.




Images used with the permission of www.ultimateungulates.com

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3978 - 02/08/03 10:54 PM


The Gaur engravings on the Jeffrey boxlock





From this thread

Jeffrey 450

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DaveJames
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #3984 - 03/08/03 01:12 AM

I wonder if their is a type like this in Vietnam? I remember runing across some like this over there in the late 60's, and they were very mean, much more so then the water buff that were their.

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Brooks
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: DaveJames]
      #3985 - 03/08/03 11:30 AM

My interest is really peaked. Where can one hunt Gaur nowdays. I was saving up some money to after leopard but hunting Guar seems like a step up.

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Brooks

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mradiel
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: Brooks]
      #4066 - 26/08/03 03:45 AM

Has anyone here had the pleasure of hunting one of these monsters? I wonder if they are as tough as cape buffalo. Anyone here know?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: mradiel]
      #4129 - 07/09/03 12:09 AM

brooks1 and mradiel

I think unfortunately population pressures in Southern and East Asia have put unsustained pressure on these beasts and hunting is probably not an option currently.

But who knows IF there was the political will. White rhino were once seriously endangered too, but hunting brought them back to sustainable populations.

The closest I know of is a related species which is smaller and a little tamer, the Banteng which can of course be hunted in limited numbers from the herd of animals introduced to the Coburg Peninsula in the Northern Territory of Australia.

If anyone knows any different please post, especially if there are any wild herds introduced to any other part of the world. Thanks.

Some more photos of Gaur following.

PS Does anyone know of good hunting books from the pre-WW2 or earlier days of India and SE Asia ? If so please post the titles, authors and if you know suppliers. Thanks.



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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death - more photos [Re: NitroX]
      #4130 - 07/09/03 12:25 AM




Herd of Gaur in the early morning mists




Bulls in open woodlands




Bull gaur in the high grass




Early sketch of a Bull Gaur, showing muscle structure.





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: DaveJames]
      #4131 - 07/09/03 12:29 AM

Dave

Some of the above photos I believe are from a herd in Vietnam.

The Malay name for the Gaur is "Seladang".

I really want to find the book I read some fifteen years ago of a Seladang/Gaur attack. I think it was a book by Samuel Baker (?)





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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mickey
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: NitroX]
      #4132 - 07/09/03 02:53 AM

Hi all. Just back from showing a flatland Aussie around British Columbia for a month.

Anyway try to find a couple of books by Captain John Brandt. He spent many years in SE Asia in the 60's and 70's and has written at least two books on the great cattle of the area. Seldang, Bantang etc. He hunted them all. Good Tiger stories also. One is called "Horned Giants" . Another is "Asian Hunter".

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DaveJames
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: mickey]
      #4136 - 07/09/03 04:20 PM

Nitro that sure looks like them, they had a real habit of chargeing you and not makeing any noise, some of the guys used to think it was a kind of water buff that couldn't be tamed, the only one I remember being hunted was one that was mentioned in Col.Askins book, he claimed to have taken one there in the early 60's with a Winchester 71, don't remember the caliber

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kos
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: DaveJames]
      #4144 - 09/09/03 10:46 PM

i just got back from malaysia and saw gaur at the k.l and singapore zoo, a bit like banteng on steroids .there is small wild buffalo in malaysia there ,but protected.also saw a thing called a serow .in the australian shooters handbook there is a story about an encounter with gaur that kills one of the hunters .i have a copy you can buy cheaply from me if you want it

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zaitsev
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: kos]
      #60722 - 03/08/06 12:12 AM

In PHC `s book death in a lonely land there is a good story about the Seladang in Asai which Berry Brooks shot. unfortunately there aint any pictures of the hunt, That was in Vietnam in 1961 and he used a .378 Wby and he gave the large bull two shots which made the bull drop on the spot.

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Grizzly
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: zaitsev]
      #61013 - 11/08/06 03:26 AM

HORNED GIANTS - Hunting Eurasian Wild Cattle
Captain John H. Brandt


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Grizzly
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: Grizzly]
      #61015 - 11/08/06 04:59 AM

Or, how about Aleister Crowley:

The most dangerous animal in Ceylon (there are no tigers, and if there were, the statement would stand) is the buffalo. One can distinguish a wild from a tame buffalo by his psychology. If he is wild, he runs away; if he is tame, he charges you. Yet these fanatical partisans of "Asia for the Asiatics" permit themselves to be ridden, cursed and bullied by brats not six years old. The buffalo is always savage and always intelligent enough to know who has wounded him. He is also infinitely courageous and vindictive. Many tigers will turn tail even when slightly but painfully wounded. But the buffalo never gives in morally or physically, and shows almost human powers of strategy and tactics in his vendetta. His vitality is incredible; the gaur (a not dissimilar species) which killed Captain Sayers in Burma had seventeen bullets from heavy rifles in him while he was goring and trampling the aggressor. The other Englishmen present could no nothing to save him.



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zaitsev
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: Grizzly]
      #61023 - 11/08/06 07:03 AM

i thinkt that the original arabian name given to the cape buffalo "kaffir",infidel also applays for the Gaur and other wild oxens, as in they dont have any gods, they are gods.

Nice pictures Nitro X and interresting engraving of the Gaur on your rifle. I`ll bet it has been used on Gaur hunting. It will be a very fine rifle for hunting if it opened up again.

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larcher
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: zaitsev]
      #61068 - 12/08/06 04:38 AM

This thread is really interesting.

In the past Vietnam and Cambodia were french. Many hunters roamed for sultry boevidaes in India and Indochina.
There are many books about Gaur, Seladang and banteng but in french.
Are
Sacha de Montbel
Omer Sarrault
Jacques Vettier
Francois Sommer's
books translated in English.
These world hunter-adventurers gave terrific accounts of these "brutes"
jb

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Grizzly
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: larcher]
      #61224 - 16/08/06 03:47 AM

Two possibilities by Baker:

Wild Beasts and their Ways or Rifle and Hound in Ceylon.

I think in one of Capstick's "Death" books there is also a reference to Baker.

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500grains
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Re: Blacker than Black Death [Re: Grizzly]
      #61234 - 16/08/06 06:25 AM

I want to shoot one of those fat cows.

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