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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39561 - 23/10/05 03:53 AM

you asking where the 12 bore shotguns are, 100 years ago the 16 bore was "the shotgun" in europe. I understand this, it looks allways better.
The 12 bore was a special gun for shooting waterfowl.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: pwm]
      #39562 - 23/10/05 04:08 AM

12 was quite popular for pigeon shooting in England.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Daryl_S]
      #39577 - 23/10/05 09:08 AM


One of the things I love about double rifles is the thump, thump when you drop the cartridges into the chambers! Another thing about doubles and cartridges like the .450 # 2 is up here in Maine lots of people, when they see the rifle and cartridge have to ask; "What in hell can you hunt with that!?" Usually I smile and reply; "Any thing any where in the world, even deer." The 30/30 croud usually shake their head and go away thinking I need a shrink.
Now back to the 450. The front sight on my 450 I made, I have seen the flip up ivory beads for low light condition and the sights with changable blades. I have also seen many of the flip up kind which were broken or been bent and few of the rifles with the inter changable sight blades seemed to bave both origional blades. To solve this potential problem I built my front sight a bit different.
On my sight, for normal conditions you have a steel sight blade with a brass insert. For low light, though not traditional, you have fiber optics. To change sight bladed you poll a spring loaded checkered steel button towards the rear of the rifle and rotate the blade 180 degrees. The button snaps into a detent so the sight can not move under recoil. If you people would like I will post some pictures of this sight as soon as I get them back.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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nopride2
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39580 - 23/10/05 12:26 PM

Great post. Nice work, thanks for sharing. A point pattern would be more traditional.

Dave


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39584 - 23/10/05 01:47 PM

Judson,

Thanks for a series of fantastic posts. CCSO on these forums has a friend who builds his own rifles on shotguns in South Dakota. Maybe you guys could swap ideas and give us even more posts to enjoy.

Best wishes and good hunting with your rifle. Nothing could be more satisfying than hunting with a rifle that one has built oneself!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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mickeyModerator
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #39592 - 23/10/05 02:41 PM

Judson

This is very interesting . Keep it up with more pictures for us guys too dull to understand the words.


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: mickey]
      #39610 - 23/10/05 10:04 PM


As soon as I get the pictures back I will post them, and I would love to talk with the guy building doubles you mentioned, great idea!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39656 - 24/10/05 10:44 AM

Like I said earlier I was getting ahead of the story. I had to make the stock in order to be able to shoot and regulate the rifle. Regulating a double is a lot of fun, if you like shooting. It is challenging as it requires you to think in, well, sort of the abstract as things do not always seem as they are in reality.
One thing you must have is the ability to solve a puzzle. You have one wedge behind the frone sight, one further back and another which will end up you front swivel if all works out well. All this mess is held togther with hose clamps. Most of this I mentioned before however I left out the weird stuff!! For example, my rifle was crossing, meaning that the right barrel was hitting to the left of left barrel. One would assume that the solution would be to spread the muzzel of the rifle a bit. Moving the front wedge to the rear did little and it was then that out of desperation I tried driving the center wedge forward and solved the problem.
What was going on was that the center wedge was too far back and causing the barrels to cross as they were bowed.
Yes I could of driven the front wedge further to the rear and eventuially solved the problem but the idea is to get the barrels to shoot right with as little tention as possable. Tension trying to hold the barrels togther is not a problem but if there is tension trying to seperate them then there is the possibility of a joint failure. This would not be dangerous from a shooting perspective but from a charging buff aspect it would be very, very, bad!!!
Once the regulating was finally finished it was time to build the forearm. For the regulating I used the origional as I had it and did not want to make the new one until I knew where the barrels would end up in relation to the forearm hanger and the action. Making the forearm is the same process as the stock. You fit it to, in this case the forearm iron and then to the action and the barrels. with a classy job the ridge which meets the bottom ridge of the barrels will extend as far back as possable, all the way to the front of the forend iron. This is nor needed and is more a show of inletting but it does make for a tighter fit with less rocking then if this rib only extends for an inch or so. On my rifle it runs all the way mostly because I wanted to see if I could do it and get it right as I have been told it is a chalange. I did not find it too bad but it takes time and lots of fitting.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39731 - 25/10/05 08:06 AM

Once I had the forearm finally fitted and shaped it was time to sand it out. As with the butt I started with 120 grit and worked my way up to finner and finner paper. Once I am done with the 120 grit from here on I wet sand using mineral spirits as a wetting agent and most all sanding is done with all fittings in place. This will give you a perfect wood to metal fit and you do not end up with rounded edges or wood below the surface of the metal.
After I had finished with the wood it was time to get all the metal parts and the barrels ready for rust bluing. Most all doubles have to be rust blued, it is not just to give the metal that clasic look. Caustic hot blueing chemicals will eat lead based solder and if your rifle does not come out of the tank in pieces it may very soon end up that way.
To have rust bluing come out right it is best to sand all metal out to 320 or 400 grit. (Buffing wheels should never be used for polishing on a gun.) All file marks and scratches must be removed or they will show and like with the stock back the sand paper. Some people do not but here too I like to wet sand as the paper will last longer and not fill up as fast and also I think it gives a better finish. Just as all screws should be lined up North and South, ( so the slots run the length of the rifle), so should all sanding be done. The barrels should be sanded along their length along with any other pieces to be blued.
One other point about sanding along the length is that you will not have the sanding marks show as lines around the barrels. Come to think of it you really do not have much choice as to how you sand a double. All excess solder has to be removed from the seems as it will not blue and will look like hell. Here sand paper, dental picks and a sharp Exacto knofe all work well. One trick I have found is to use touch up blueing like 44/40 to check and see if any solder remains. Well enough for now, next I will try to explain how to protect the bores and also get the finish you want as far as what degree of shiny or satten

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39908 - 28/10/05 08:34 AM


Now for the rust blueing! Once all parts are to be blued are polished out to either 320 grit or 400 they have to be well cleaned as any oil left on the parts will spoil the blueing. For this I use lacquer thinner and once cleaned I do not handle the parts or barrels with out using clean gloves. Since rust blue is really rust turned into black iron oxide we do not want it to get into the bores as it will etch them and result in at best a dark bore. Some people recomend using wood plugs to plug the bore but since this rust blue involves boiling the barrels I do not like this idea. If a plug blows out you could get a face full of boiling water. In addition to that there is no way to check to ensure that no water has seeped into the bore other then removing the plugs.
What I have had very good results with is to paint the bores. Any good water proof spray paint will work for this. Spray from both ends and make sure the bores are completely covered. If some paint gets where you do not want it you can clean it off with lacquer thinner. Once the barrels are blued just soak them in lacquer thinner and scrub with a brush to remove the paint.
For the blueing it self I use Great American Rust Blue which Browenells carries. You swab on one coat and waite for a couple of hours and apply the next coat. Several hours later your parts will be red and motteled black with rust and look like HELL! This is fine and the next day boil the barrels and parts in clean water, card them off with clean 0000 steel wool. (Wash the steel wool in lacquer thinner as it is coated with oil so it will not rust)
Apply another coat of the rust blue solution and let the barrels and parts set in a damp area over night if you want a saten finish or no more then eight to ten hours for a shinier finish. The longer you waite between coats the duller the finish will be as the rust blue has more time to etch deeper into the metal.
Once you have the depth of blue you want, this will in most cases take five to ten cycles, (bioling for 15 min., carding boiling until hot then applying the next coat) it is time to boil the parts for around half an hour to stop the rusting action and then soak them for half an hour in water displacing oil. Once this is done wash everything again in lacquer thinner scrub out the paint in the bores and give every thing a light coat of linseed oil after buffing out with 0000 steel wool. If I have confused you please ask questions, the process though timely is really simple and you will not find a tuffer blueing with any other process.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #39916 - 28/10/05 11:35 AM

Judson

Thank you for taking the time to give all of us such a fantastic report on the building of a DR. The detail and photos are nothing short of fantastic.

Keep up the good work as I am sure all of us are as anxious to see this to the finish as you are to see the rifle finished.







--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #40195 - 31/10/05 11:24 AM


I am sorry but I do not have pictures of the finished rifle (minus the checkering, still waiting for more votes!)
I should have them either Monday or Tuesday and will post them as soon as I get them and a chance. Here in Maine deer season just started and we are rather busy with the "Ibroke it yast year and want it for tommorow"crowd, if you know what I mean!!! The rifle is finished other then checkering and it shoots great. I wanted to use it for deer but I was watching our field and tagged out with a six point yesterday using my wife's .366/358 Norma which around here is called a .366 Barbie. I am sorry, I have failed you people!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40220 - 31/10/05 02:25 PM

In reply to:

I have failed you people



Damn right! We would much rather you tagged out with the ".450 Ken" than the ".366 Barbie"!!



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Marrakai]
      #40305 - 01/11/05 11:05 AM

I will try to redeam my self however I am having a few problems scanning in some pictures so I can only post one at present of the blued double. I should get everything taken care of and I will get more posted. You know, I asked my wife Barb if she would hunt with the .450 # 2 for her deer. She sort of gave me, you know one, of those looks that said you must be insane. Hell I thought it the least she could do since I tagged out with her rifle and cartridge.
When I was looking over the pictures of the building of the double I came across one that showed something I should mention. When cleaning up solder joints, and this goes for any gun, a course 60 degree checkering tool does a real nice job. I used this along the quater rib and along the ribs. Go gently or you will scratch the steel and break the teeth of the cutter and clean the teeth often. This little trick saves lots of time and will slightly under cut so no solder will show.
All right, here we go with the left side I hope!!! If you want I have views of the top and bottom with the skeleton grip cap. Next post, the reversible front sight with the fiber optic. Yes, I realise that is not traditional, but it is practical.


--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

Edited by Judson (01/11/05 11:31 AM)


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JPeterson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40306 - 01/11/05 11:11 AM

Great looking DR

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mickeyModerator
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: JPeterson]
      #40327 - 01/11/05 03:03 PM

Judson, very nice.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40567 - 04/11/05 10:52 AM

Sorry that I have been away for a bit but it is deer season up here and the shop gets rather crazy this time of the year!!!
This is the front sight I made for the double and I will probably use this style for future doubles unless the customer wants some thing different. I think the sight is rather trouble free, nothing to get bent or broken like a flip up ivory bead or lost like interchangably sight blades.
All you do to go to the low light sight is pull the checkered steel slide (The arrow is pointing to the slide.) to the rear and rotate the sight 180 dgrees and let the slide snap forward to lock it in place. Now you have fiber optic, yes I know but it workes!! In reality I have to wonder why a person would ever use a sight that did not show up as well as possible. The flip up ivory bead would have been good any time so why not have it as a fixed sight. The only down side to this was that most low light sights were rather large and covered up alot of the target at longer ranges but it does make you think a bit. So do the folding leaf express sights where the 300 yard leaf is the forward one. It would have made more sence to have the longest sight plane for the greatest distance don't you think?
Well any way here is the sight if these pictures come up.


This is the sight reversed, it has a red fiber optic, sorry it does not show up too well in the picture.


--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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475Guy
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40579 - 04/11/05 01:44 PM

Judson

I'm very glad to hear your project has progressed so well. You done good! Almost makes me want to get one custom made from you. Have you seen the new Ruger double barrel shotguns? Think this shotgun could be a project?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40580 - 04/11/05 01:53 PM

Judson,

That is one beautiful rifle!

Congratulations and best wishes for many memorable hunts with it.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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Chasseur
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40588 - 04/11/05 02:33 PM

Judson,

Great work and thanks for all the explanations!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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mickeyModerator
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Chasseur]
      #40593 - 04/11/05 02:48 PM

I love that front sight. Very creative.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: mickey]
      #40692 - 05/11/05 09:35 AM


I have never really taken a good look at the Ruger double from the double rifle perspective so I can not really comment on it. However I have looked at the H&K Lion Classic with a double rifle in mind and it would woork very well and is around $1000 less in price.
My wife and I are trying to put togther a African hunt for 2007, I hope to use my 450 for Buff then. I had high hopes of takeing a deer with it this fall but things did not work out that way and Barbara will not shoot it, she is such a wimp, so field results will have to wait for next saeson or for Africa.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
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Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40694 - 05/11/05 09:45 AM

The gold label lacks the proper lock ups for conversion to a double rifle.

BB


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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: Judson]
      #40705 - 05/11/05 12:39 PM

Judson

Thanks again for all the posts and keeping us informed as to the progress on your DR project.

I also like your front sight, that was a great idea.

Have you decided on the style of checkering yet?



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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Judson
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Re: Building a double rifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #40782 - 06/11/05 11:13 AM


Thank you for the info on the Ruger I have never really looked at their doubles. As for the checkering, I am still open to votes and since I can not decide I leave the pattern up to you people but it will probably be 22 lines per inch. I feel that 22 LPI gives good grip but is fine enough to still look good. Much finer then this and it looks great but you loose the grip and on this rifle I want both.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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